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comment by kleinbl00

It's an interesting problem: I think all cultures are blind to racism when that racism is deeply rooted in tradition. I suspect one reason we tolerate more racism and inappropriate behavior from the elderly is that they are walking examples of tradition.

Part of the problem, I think, is that you see "Elves" where the rest of us see "negative stereotype of black people that we've gone out of our way to shame and abolish since the '60s. " And while there is no shame in having black "elves" to help with the presents and whatnot, from my casual eye it seems that there has been no conscious effort to not make Black Pete a negative stereotype. I mean, a "moor" in "page clothes" doesn't have to mean this:

It could easily mean this:

There's a difference, I think, between gender or racial equality and gender or racial respect. Any race is allowed to poke fun at their own stereotypes, but when you start poking fun at another race's stereotypes the hackles go up.

Call it the Hollywood test - would Morgan Freeman play Zwarte Piet? Would Chris Rock? I think you'll find that "roles" that are not internally offensive are usually played straight, while those with an element of offense are usually played across racial lines. Who played Mr. Miyaki? Pat Morita. Who played Master Chiun in Remo Williams? Joel Grey.





speeding_snail  ·  4155 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    It's an interesting problem: I think all cultures are blind to racism when that racism is deeply rooted in tradition. I suspect one reason we tolerate more racism and inappropriate behavior from the elderly is that they are walking examples of tradition.

I think this might be true. Traditions are generally not questioned and as such, things like racism are left for what they are.

I don't really get why I should not be allowed to make fun of stereotypes of other "races". I mean, everybody is free to make fun of my stereotypes, why shouldn't I have the same freedom?

About the Hollywood test: I can't ask actual black people since I don't know any. Most of those live in the west, not the south. I might try asking some passersby tomorrow to get a more complete view. I am now really curious as to what the opinion of non-native Dutch is.

kleinbl00  ·  4155 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  

>I don't really get why I should not be allowed to make fun of stereotypes of other "races".

By saying this I presume that you are ethnically caucasian. You are also male. Your stereotype, then, is "default." Had you a race or gender other than "default" you might have a better understanding of it.

I grew up white in a predominantly hispanic and native american region of New Mexico. There were restaurants I couldn't eat at, there were stores that wouldn't sell things to me (as in, you ask for help and they say "we're not going to help you, this place isn't for your kind"). I used to think that gave me a unique "white" perspective on racism. And while it certainly gives me an insight that a lot of white people lack, it doesn't go nearly far enough.

I mixed a truly, spectacularly large talent show a couple years back (think X Factor or Pop Idol or The Voice Of Holland - it was that big). We had people on that show that had experienced hardship - oh, my mother died. Oh, momma was on Welfare. Oh, I struggled with alcohol abuse. Touching stuff, nothing untoward.

Six months later I mixed a couple episodes of Sunday Best (It's not on my IMDb). For two solid days the 6-person sound crew were the only non-black people in West Angeles Church - no small feat. And we did the exact same interviews as you ever do. The level of hardship, on the other hand, was off the fucking hook - "God took my eyesight but I still believe." "My mother was shot last month but I believe." "I'm homeless but I believe."

It was really striking to me how the level of shit the African American community took as baseline was so much more impoverished and strife-ridden than what the White American community took. There are serious problems with affirmative action and saying "some are more equal than others" but it really is a pain in the ass being a minority on so many levels.

I don't think you understand that. And when you poke fun at other racial stereotypes, you remind people of that fact. It's a boundary, it really is. And since you've never been over that particular border, you aren't aware of the fence that keeps things civil.

speeding_snail  ·  4155 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You are right, I am ethnically caucasian and indeed, male. You just made me realize that I know next to nothing about other ethnicities and the world they live in (as in worldview and stuff they have to deal with). I know I am privileged, I mean, I live in a rich country, go to uni and everything, but I never realized that race was such an issue (at least, not here in the Netherlands).

I thank you for this eye opener and I will try to understand more about where people are coming from when they are talking about racism. Maybe black petes with a soot stain across the face isn't that bad idea after all.

By the way, I was thinking yesterday and it struck me that Zwarte Piet in the dutch language doesn't always have to mean the helper of Sinterklaas. I think that this explains it rather well...