Landed a remote job offer that will keep me behind a computer (in my field I went to school for) and in the warmth of FL. Tomorrow is also the final round of interviews for a position requiring re-location waaaaay further north. I seem to be the only person in my world that wants to see where the latter one goes. It would mean travel, moving into management, and steering towards a career and sector I want. Almost am afraid to complete the final interview tomorrow. I KNOW I am the right fit. I KNOW I am what they are looking for. I also know it would be uprooting the life I have. I’ve been believing in myself that it would be the right choice if I did it. Beginning to question myself after hearing those around me breathe a sigh if relief landing the remote gig.
Take it from me: moving is no mean trick. If you move, you're gonna be uncomfortable, anxious, maybe even worried about the unknown unknowns. Depending on how far you move (Canada, I'm assuming?), you may find yourself surprised or appalled by some of the very casual things locals take for granted. I imagine it would be worse still if you have a life where you are right now. Friends, family, favorite places to visit – all of that is hard to just say goodbye to (even if you end up seeing your loved ones often enough). The question, then, is: are you worried about relocation because you hate to leave something and someone behind (even if you're not leaving them forever), or are you worried because you like where you are and the path ahead of you? Just because you're the right fit for someone doesn't mean you have to be with them for your own good. My advice is: be where you want to be. The old flip-a-coin trick is just icing on the fact that you already know which side you want the coin to land. You have a wonderful opportunity to choose between two good things. See to it that you pick the one you'd most like to be true. The rest will follow. Best of luck.
Really appreciate the words. I’m still weighing the two in my mind, especially your question. Oddly, it may not matter. I was told at the end of the interview they were interviewing the last couple candidates in two weeks… With that in mind, I’m assuming I’m boned, no matter how impressed they were with my under of the industry. Recency bias is unusually strong for interviews.
You're hardly boned if you have a good gig on your hands and a maybe-better gig in an uncertain future. ;)
kleinbl00, b_b, Foveaux, lil, Quatrarius, update: We tried talking a couple nights ago but it wasn't really the right time and environment to have a constructive conversation. It was still very respectful and caring towards each other, but otherwise wasn't working well. We tried again yesterday afternoon after she got out of work, and had a wonderful hour, hour and a half of talking. The feedback from y'all and via text message really helped me clarify my thoughts and emotions in this situation, and her and I have walked away from yesterday's conversation with a "let's check-in on this topic as it comes up, but yes, let's keep doing what we're doing in a safe, thoughtful, and fun way that can build on what we're starting with each other". So, we'll see? But I think being more assertive in stating my wants/needs while also clarifying my desire to respect and maintain her freedom and autonomy went a long way. The latter really changed the entire tone of the conversation and I think changed her narrative on this topic. Feeling positive, but we're not 100% through this.
First World Problems There comes a time when it makes more sense to buy rather than rent. Often, that calculation is financial. Sometimes, it's situational. ____________________________________________ fun business fact: most commercial leases are what's called "triple net" or "NNN" which means "net insurance, net maintenance, net taxes" which is another way of saying "the landlord is going to stick you for abso-fucking-lutely everything." NNN is rarely published, the rate you see is just the lease, and it's usually in dollars per square foot per year. So in order to figure out your rental payment you're already in Excel and you can't even fill in the values until you get the NNN number. And how do you get the NNN number? See here's the great thing. Unlike residential stuff, which is on readily-browsable databases and is fundamentally open, commercial listings are often held by brokers who don't list shit publicly. Yeah some of it is on Loopnet but even Loopnet shows only a selection. Some of it is on Craigslist but you can basically dismiss that shit out of hand because it's all Fisher Price My Very First Office bullshit. So you're already engaging with one, two or three parties just to get the number. You might think that NNN number is highly variable, but again, we do everything "per year" which means whatever this year's number is reflects the accumulation of last year's charges divided by square footage. The clever among us might now notice that there's a built-in incentive to... you know... not do maintenance if you expect to need to sign new tenants next year (which are typically on a 5-year lease with an inflation adjustment and two five-year extensions). And if you think you might want to sell the building in the next couple years, it behooves you to not sign those leases because it will increase the delta between your rent roll and your proforma - the "how much money would you be making a year if you leased this whole turkey at current market rates." How do you buy such a thing? Well, typically you get a commercial mortgage, which is like 30% down and typically has interest-only payments for five years and then has a balloon payment of the whole fucking nut after five years and oh by the way the interest is calculated on ten, fifteen, twenty year horizons but this stuff tends to fly because you aren't buying commercial real estate unless you're rich. You can, of course, buy real estate through the Small Business Association. Their terms are substantially more normal. 10, 20, 25 year terms, 10% down, rate anchored at 2.75% over prime. You have to occupy 51% of the building within a year of purchase, though. We're currently 21%. Of course, nobody checks. My real estate guy has a client who used an SBA loan to buy a building downtown that he immediately leased out to a couple grow ops. _____________________________________ So why would you put up with this shit if you weren't screamingly wealthy? Well, maybe your landlord has decided that since you're the only one using the sign, you should pay for 75% of it and if he feels like using more than 25%, he'll just take it. Maybe your triple-net is 50% over the average and your landlord knows it and rather than taking one for the team because of his 10 years of deferred maintenance, he just uses the internet to turn everyone's thermostats down so the heating bill is lower. Maybe he's decided that snow removal might technically be part of the triple net, but since you're the only one who's in the office when it snows it should all come out of your end. Maybe his inability to get anything better than the fuck-you price from anyone he deals with has led to an exchange where he texts you "if you think you can do a better job running the building why don't you buy it" at which point you say "because every time I offer you say there's nowhere to put the money" and he says "anything is available for a price" so you say "so give me your rent roll your proforma and your capex and we'll talk." maybe your landlord sucks so hard at landlording that he's on the verge of going bankrupt maybe your competitors are closing all around you because this pandemic has been absolutely brutal to the healthcare industry maybe your colleagues are pleading with you to buy out other practices to keep them from going dark Maybe a bunch of shit but the bottom line is you're looking at multi-million-dollar decisions in order to reduce your annoyance, and that shit's fucking whack yo. Musk? Buys Twitter to win internet arguments. Me? Looking hard at buying the building so that the landlord can't just wander in and stare at everyone's tits. _____________________________________ I only bring this up because our business is not making us rich, but it is feeding eight families and paying a lot in taxes and keeping babies healthy and all that saccharine shit and here's normie me, with a spreadsheet of profitability and listen close chilluns EVERY TIME JEROME POWELL RAISES RATES A QUARTER POINT, MY POTENTIAL MORTGAGE ON THAT BUILDING GOES UP $400 A MONTH Which, despite the fact that I've been paying entirely too much attention to finance bullshit for entirely too long, was the first thing that really solidified "interest rates" for me. Because since October, my potential mortgage payment on that bulding has gone up two thousand dollars a month. Multiply times the economy.
I disagree with your assessment of this as a first world problem, though I largely agree with everything else. For sure one of the biggest reasons why this isn't a first world problem is that debt is denominated in dollars, and the dollar (until like last week) had been rising dramatically along with interest rates since suddenly government bonds were sort of profitable, or at least less unprofitable than the had been. So all the poor people of the world who have had to borrow in dollars and pay in Rand or whatever are utterly fucked right now. The interest rate rises have been fucking a lot of people, and just because you're comfortable in general doesn't mean you shouldn't be complaining about it. I have a hard time jibing with Powell's thinking. Didn't raise rates because Trump bullied him into not raising them, but now can't stop himself even when there's ample evidence that (1) you can't interest hike your way out of a supply problem, which is where most inflation has come from, and (2) the effect of rate hike has probably already been felt to the point that all you're doing now is beating a dead horse. Weak leadership. Weak rationale.Multiply times the economy
I'm not really hurt by it because I don't have to buy the damn building. The rates on the sign lease keep climbing but I could cut a check for the damn sign. If I did so, of course, that's that much less down-payment on the building yadda yadda yadda but really, this all comes down to "how cheaply can you spill money" and it's not like credit cards are within the same order of magnitude as prime rates, ever. Payday loan people? They charge what they charge, they don't give a fuck about Jerome Powell. But here's the thinking: - IF Phillips Curve, then Supply Side Economics. The Phillips Curve effectively says "if rich people are in trouble, get poor people fired." Its solution to rich people not being able to borrow is to destroy poor peoples' livelihood. - IF Sahm Rule, then communism. The Sahm Rule effectively says "if poor people are getting fired, pay them to save rich people's investments." Its solution to rich people not being able to borrow is to ensure poor people's livelihood. Economics is nothing more than the careful exclusion of externalities to justify your monetary philosophy. And the Fed has never given the first fuck about the poor.
I am having a bit of a reckoning. Any and all input is welcome. Having a great, great time with this girl from the last Pubski. Still seeing each other almost daily, which sounds like a lot, but feels like nothing and is so organic. Our dates are great and so varied, our emotional and physical chemistry is through the roof, and we've started introducing each other to friends in our respective lives. There's two challenges, one of which is exciting - she is finishing up a fellowship and got a job in the area, but will be a 4pm to midnight-ish job 3-4 days a week. Not too concerned over that, but will certainly change the dynamic a bit from the current arrangement where seeing each other when we're both done with work is super easy. The other though, she is a serial monogamist who is exploring her sexuality and sex itself - got out of a relationship 3-4 weeks ago, hopped on Bumble, and has gone on dates with a few people since then, mostly myself. Somehow the topic of progression to a relationship came up, while we're dating right now, what could the future look like. She knows she's looking for a relationship, but she also may want to sleep around as that's something she hasn't had an opportunity to do in the past (was married for 6+ years prior to this last relationship). But, I am open to that in the scenario where I am the person she's dating and emotionally committed to, and honestly, if she wants to go on a date with someone else once in a while and fuck them as a one-off while we figure this out/progress our dating...like...that's okay with certain boundaries... Anyway, we're going out for a fancy dinner tonight. Will be a lot of fun! Hmm...I don't know. Throwing words out there to try and formulate my own opinion and thoughts.
hubski friends thank you for engaging me on this topic - i was not expecting this type of response, both quality and quantity thank you for being here, on this site, in this moment. words on a screen are weird, but they've been immensely helpful to me today
I'm sure there are people who can make open relationships work. I'll just say that in the 30 years I have been peripheral to the polyamorous community I have never once met one. More than that, nobody griefs quite like polys. Every anecdote I have about a bad breakup - every single one, except with the guy who is a diagnosed sociopath - involves a joint decision to fuck other people. The bitterest humans I know are the ones who tried to make open relationships work. Quoth lil: "Monogamy" can be substituted out of that sentence with no difficulty whatsoever. Polyamory, chess, bass fishing. "I want to explore my sexuality" is a very, VERY different statement than "I want to explore my sexuality with you." Recognize that she is saying "I am offering you no commitments" and that is literally all she is saying. Recognize that she is laying the groundwork for "I owe you fuckall behaviorally speaking" and gird your loins for it. You will suck at this. I say this because I know you. Your best move is to say "come find me when you've figured it out, because you matter to me more than I matter to you right now and I'm not going to put up with that." Li'l story. I've known my wife since 1994. She literally gave me my dorm key. And within a week she was dating this other guy. Dated him for five years. Married him. Stayed married to him for two years. Then got sick of his shit and kicked him out. He was literally the only person she ever dated. And we started dating, and she said a few things about having never really dated, and wanting to maybe figure out what that looked like, and I was kinda cool with it, and she had a party with a group of friends, one of whom, like me, wanted to date her earlier but couldn't, and I thought "I owe her this" and then I immediately thought "no, no I don't" and came right back to the house having left and kicked his ass out. We'd been "dating" for two weeks at the time. That was more than twenty years ago. A serial monogamist who was married for six years doesn't need to figure out her shit at your expense. You can be cool with it? But you won't be happy about it. And she won't respect you. CANCEL AWAY FUCKERSIf monogamy is not based on the desire and joy in being together, then it’s control.
Yeah, I think if I had to sum up what you're saying, it's really to advocate for myself in this situation. You know, I had/have been seriously considering seeking a therapist to help me understand my dating patterns and to dig deeper into understanding and sorting through the people I am attracted to and the people whom I attract. You are aware of, jeez, the last 8+ years of by virtue of Hubski and our separate conversations. I wouldn't call it unhealthy? It is, however, something that seems to continually trend towards relational and emotional instability.Your best move is to say "come find me when you've figured it out, because you matter to me more than I matter to you right now and I'm not going to put up with that."
A serial monogamist who was married for six years doesn't need to figure out her shit at your expense. You can be cool with it? But you won't be happy about it. And she won't respect you.
I'm going to say "men." When i say "men" I am saying "adult males who are generally compassionate individuals who abide by the emotional well-being of their counterparts of any gender and reject the general derogatory and zero-sum philosophy of the pickup-artist community." So when I say "men" I do not mean "all males" I mean, in general, "men who don't suck." And I'm going to say "the biggest mistake I see men make is in over-accommodating the perceived needs of their partners." Not as in "when in doubt, be an asshole" but as in "eagerness to please, if not employed consciously and concisely, can come across as weakness." One of the principles of dating going back hundreds of years is the attractiveness of self-confidence. Self-confidence is not arrogance, and a lot of people confuse the two (it is socially advantageous to muddy the waters in debate). Likewise, humility is not self-abuse... but a lot of people confuse the two. I think people with self confidence simply have a more refined assessment of their personal value. I think everyone is right at least part of the time? But I think the individuals who others describe as "confident" are the ones who know their merits, know their limitations, and are not bashful about making them known. A self-confident person can say "I suck at basketball" without suffering any ego damage. They can also go "this relationship is a poor investment emotionally" without feeling like they're letting themselves or the other person down. I also think that relationships, at a basic level, ARE a mutual pact of control. "I will give up this autonomy for you because we're both happier when we make mutual decisions." Humans are social creatures, in general we want some form of structure within which to live our lives. We don't all want the same things and we don't want the same thing all the time, but a relationship is, fundamentally, an agreement to sacrifice some amount of autonomy for some amount of security. And I think confident individuals have an easier time negotiating that. I also think everyone has a different setting on the "autonomy/control" dial and if your dials aren't aligned you're gonna fight over the thermostat. Look at it as a business proposition. It's crass but crassness cuts through the bullshit. "I will sell you this car for a tenth the sticker price on the understanding that, at any given moment, someone else might be driving it." Is it your only car? Well then you're fucked. Do you already have a Toyota but someone is offering up a Ferrari? Congratulations you just rationalized infidelity. If the Toyota didn't have feelings everything would be fine. I don't think anything you're doing is unhealthy. I just know that everyone (everyone who isn't a jaded, cynical mutherfucker like myself) in a new relationship is afloat on all the delerious possibilities, not looking for shoals to crash into. Mine has been a life of shoals... followed by a normal, boring and cloyingly happy 20-year relationship.
I've found it's one of the most intoxicating feelings, being in a new relationship. It used to run the risk of tainting everything that followed in that relationship, because things inevitably calm down and become stable/boring/predictable. But before then? That emotional spice of discovering a new person? Hooo boy. However, holy shit I enjoy stable/boring/predictable now. My partner asked me once "Do you think we're boring?" and I said "No. I think we do what we want, when we want." And she hummed over this so I expanded by asking "What do you want to do this evening?" And she said "Stay home, eat chocolate and work on my cross-stitch." And I said "Fuck yeah." so we did that. We have a little signal at gatherings, one quick eyebrow raise is code for "I'm running out of social battery, can we escape soon?" two quick eyebrow raises is code for "I'm running out of social battery, can we escape soon and also I want to fuck?". There's likely a lot of eye smouldering going on in tandem with the double raise, but I like to think we've transcended the need for that. I've never felt so damn comfortable.I just know that everyone (everyone who isn't a jaded, cynical mutherfucker like myself) in a new relationship is afloat on all the delerious possibilities, not looking for shoals to crash into.
We watch a lot of HBO - she does charts, I window-shop watches and cars I will never buy (I have an obscene obsession with the poorest-executed kit cars I can find). And boy howdy will HBO give you a heapin' helpin' of extremely complicated, extremely fractious, extremely exhausting relationships. It's only boring if it bores you. I used to start dating a girl and making a mental note of how many weeks or months it was likely to last. I dated two (simultaneously) where I knew it would either flame out in weeks or go on forever in an exhaustively combustible fashion. When I started dating my wife I couldn't see what would end the relationship. So far, nothing has.
Wow I love everything about that. The stable/boring/predictable aspect of a relationship, and probably every aspect of life, is something I really struggle with. I was messaging a friend earlier today about this whole situation, and I quote "I think that this beginning of whatever this is, is super interesting space to be in right now, but also I think it's provoking some of the slightly more manic aspects of my personality". lol.However, holy shit I enjoy stable/boring/predictable now. My partner asked me once "Do you think we're boring?" and I said "No. I think we do what we want, when we want." And she hummed over this so I expanded by asking "What do you want to do this evening?" And she said "Stay home, eat chocolate and work on my cross-stitch." And I said "Fuck yeah." so we did that. We have a little signal at gatherings, one quick eyebrow raise is code for "I'm running out of social battery, can we escape soon?" two quick eyebrow raises is code for "I'm running out of social battery, can we escape soon and also I want to fuck?". There's likely a lot of eye smouldering going on in tandem with the double raise, but I like to think we've transcended the need for that.
How you're feeling does resonate with me. Not too long ago, in my 20s, I struggled with the idea of anything feeling 'static'. I wanted new things, to constantly be moving and discovering. Because it felt awesome. It was like tucking into a new book, but I was in the book experiencing things. While I don't begrudge how I felt before, the person I am now is noticeably different and I put a lot of that down to just having my partner and everything we've built/begun to build. There's so many things that I know about her, and I only know them after being with her the past 5 (going on 6) years. It's not long compared to some; but similar to your current situation, it began and continued very organically. We met on Tinder, talked for months (truly, months!) before actually meeting up. Since that first night at a dingy little bar that sold our favourite drinks and had killer live music, we've been together. Officially, months down the track, but uhh.. Emotionally? Yeah that night, onwards. She has a little tic when she talks and gets passionate about a topic - her right eye winks a little. It's adorable, and I'm never going to point it out because she'll get self-conscious. She absolutely loves any jewellery that's just fuckin' weird and will collect shiny things on a whim. She's a goddamn magpie. We found one of those old letter-press, printing tray things and it's mounted in the spare bedroom where she can display an ever increasing and ever-eclectic collection. I'll nab a photo at some point, it's really quite impressive. Her mother, one of the most kind and warm people I've ever met, described her as 'a tyrant' when she was a toddler. If she didn't get her way she'd go rigid with rage and if that didn't work, she'd remove all of her clothing in protest. I've held her hair back when she was sick, helped her through panic attacks, and taught her how to write a CV (she always had jobs through word of mouth until we had met). She's practically carried my emotional state on her back in 2017, and spearheaded the purchase of our first house. I was too nervous to try, she was determined to have a slice of land to call ours and have a chicken coop, garden, deck, and nobody to tell her off when she hung her assortment of shinies. There's something so undeniably attractive about someone determined and passionate. All of this to say, that discovery period, that super interesting space, is so great. I loved it. But I also really love the times after that initial phase, where you get to apply everything you've learned about this person and as an unstoppable unit, help each other grow. I hope whatever the outcome, it works out for you in the end. I'm really pleased you've found someone you click with, but I do also agree with kb and Lil's musings on the matter - they're far more articulate than I so I won't repeat anything. As you say, advocate for yourself first! But I hope it works out. It all sounds so promising.
This whole passage makes me so happy. My only observation is you're referring to "the initial discovery period" as "the discovery period" as if there's only one, when everything about what you write indicates that you know you're discovering more and more about each other every day. Which, as two people who do not lead static lives, is exactly the way it's supposed to work.
The idea of mutual 'control' and general question of the 'rationality' of expecting monogamy are concepts with which I've still yet to come to terms. It's not an insecurity borne of any past or present situation, but rather just the hypothetical of a partner proposing non-monogamy and whether I could (or perhaps more importantly, need to) rationalize a rejection that's not reliant on mitigable concerns (e.g. using protection). Setting aside the empirical arguments, I don't know how to examine the emotional need for a partner to reciprocate monogamy and whether that's rooted in something outside of possessiveness.I also think that relationships, at a basic level, ARE a mutual pact of control.
Late to the discussion. But I just want to say that this line from kleinbl00 is spot on: And she won't respect you.
-some will say otherwise, but they’re wrong. His advice about letting her go until she’s ready to come back makes a lot of sense too. Wishing you the best here, BFE. You deserve it!
there are shades of polyamory that range from "bob and jan at the swinger's club" to "emily, emily, daisy, and emily in the 1-bedroom portland apartment" and they all come with different commitments and different sets of baggage. you both have things you want and things you don't want: just talk to each other. the only discovery that polyamorists have made is that relationships are contracts and if you want to get what you want, you need to put that shit in writing who are you coming home with at the end of the day? does anybody get placed higher in each others' hierarchies? are you a couple +X associates, or a eunuch's court of supposed equals? do you feel comfortable with dating somebody who's having sex with other people? do you feel comfortable dating someone who's potentially developing some emotional connections with other people? are you okay without the guarantee of "you're my number one and my only one, I'm not gonna even try to get into any potentially compromising situations because that's how important you are"? because that's what the difference between bob and jan and the rest are, you know what i mean? being poly is different than just sleeping around there's only so much love in you to go around, and so much time in the day to go around. the more you divvy it up the more (at a minimum) complicated it gets. you can't just be open to it, you have to want it. you have to want an open relationship actively and enthusiastically more than any other option for it to work, because otherwise it's something you're going "wellll, maybe until... for now i can... if it's what they want then..." in your head the whole time
It's simpler than that. there are the lies we tell ourselves, and there are the lies we tell other people. A relationship with two people in it has self-lies^2 and other-lies^2. That's complicated enough. A relationship with three people in it has self-lies^3 and other-lies^3. A relationship with n people in it has self-lies^n and other-lies^n. From a systems perspective, the higher order the equations the less stable the equilibrium. A high-order unstable equation will fall out of equilibrium faster than a low-order unstable equation. Consequently, over time there are fewer high-order equations because the higher order, the steeper the asymptote. The way these systems work is if the lies are all aligned. If my self-lies are the same as your other-lies, we have a coefficient. If your self-lies are the same as my other-lies, we have another coefficient. Ax plus By = R. But the more people involved, the more cult-like it has to become or else you end up with ABx^3 minus 3ABx^2 plus 6ABX minus 9BCy^3.... = R. It has been my experience that those in polyamorous relationships pride themselves on their individuality, on their non-conformity, and on their self-narrative. In other words, the people you run into with this shit are the ones with the most flamboyant self-lies. It has also been my experience that those in polyamorous relationships pride themselves on their openness, on their eclecticism, and on their extroversion. In other words, the people you run into with this shit are the ones with the most flamboyant other-lies. Sure. Put that shit in writing. It'll absolutely enforce itself and solve all problems. And yeah. Call "fucking around" a social movement, a polycule, whatever the fuck you want. Semantics is truth. For sure, nobody has ever done this shit before, this time is different, The Olds just don't know how to set proper boundaries. Look. The biological evidence of human relationships is evidence of infidelity. The human penis is shaped to extract the semen of rivals from the vaginal cavity. Human males are attracted to the signifiers of youth, human females are attracted to the signifiers of power. The post-coital physiological response of males is to fall asleep; the post-coital physiological response of females is to be awake. The archetype of human relationships is a pride of lions with one titular male head with a lot of wives surrounded by young rival males who fuck behind his back. There are several species of primates whose principal method of procreation is rape. There have been social structures that are much closer to this style of polyamory. The Ottomans spring immediately to mind, as do the Mormons. But there's a big prohibition in there - only one person is allowed to fuck around. The social glue necessary to make this shit work is basically taboo to discuss, which means everyone comes into it with their own preconceptions. everyone can work together to make their glue stick? But that just means that when it comes apart it will release more energy - you do not want to see what a 20-year polyamorous relationship looks like when it ends. So I recognize it makes me an oppressor thoughtcrime boomer privileged incel or some shit to say this but I don't fucking care. I've never seen anyone helped by a polyamorous relationship. Not short term, not long term. I've seen dozens hurt. Because we all tell each other different lies, and the more of us there are, the faster they catch up.
that's a lot of words to basically say that it's hard to have more than one deeply personal relationship which is prima facie true. it is indeed simpler than that. i respect your authoriteh as a wise elder. don't jerk off at me about it because I'm not the one who needs to hear it with that aside my anecdata from my more limited set of experience is that polyamory is a fancy word for roommates that sleep in a big bed and that it's a thing that fags do to afford to live in the big city. i'm neutral at best on it and it seems like it just amplifies the shitty behavior of a shitty relationship x (number of people) x (time). i have never met anybody in a legit poly relationship who isn't either 1. dirt poor 2. trans 3. being actively groomed or all 3. people who dip their toes into it get burned. you need to hard commit and trust the fuck out of everybody involved for it to even have a chance and personally i haven't seen it having sex with other people while being in a relationship is rolling the dice on whether somebody's gonna catch feelings and as time increases the probability of that approaches 100% unless you're bob and jan at the swingers party tag yourself and post in the comments what your postcoital physiological response is: mine is typically being asked to leave the restaurant
I've listened and while I don't have anything to add around the discussion, I can't quite parse your accent. Is it Canadian? I thought I heard an "aboot". I'm really, really bad at North American accents though, we don't get many of them in my neck of the woods. I could tell Boston. Maybe. If it was someone asking if I wanted a coffee.
Polyamory is a fancy word for "this isn't gonna work how you expect" and it's also the reason I have a former employee with a restraining order against a former client. Having watched from the sidelines all these years, I can also say with no hesitation that 'boomers were better at it than GenX was better at it than millennials was better at it than GenZ at the same age. I suspect this is because the further back in time you go, the more transgressive your actions, and the higher the bar of entry for normative relationships. GenZ is far more likely to say "I'm poly" when what they mean is "I'm promiscuous" which is not the same thing. Accepting and broadcasting that you're a hoondawg sets expectations of monogamy and emotional stability appropriately low. Launching into a disquisition about the gender phenotypes of multilateral relationship power dynamics mostly serves to let your partner know it's their fault you sleep around. I've met plenty... but my experience with GenZ poly relationships is that GenZ is a lot more likely to justify an unhealthy relationship as unconventional, whereas prior generations are much more likely to let an unconventional relationship get unhealthy. It's a chicken/egg problem but older generations were more likely to argue the sanctity of their structures while younger generations are more likely to argue they have the maturity to forego them. It all goes to shit eventually anyway, it just goes to shit in a different order. i have never met anybody in a legit poly relationship who isn't either 1. dirt poor 2. trans 3. being actively groomed or all 3.
bfx, the important thing is to have fun now, to deepen your relationship now, and continue being honest and open about fears and feelings. “Now” is all that’s real. I went through three long relationships and two (too) long marriages before I stumbled across my current partner and and for the first time didn’t want to be with anyone else. I was sixty-fucking-three when I got it, that monogamy is just wanting to have the best time with someone you like — not externally imposed. Prior to now in my life, monogamy was just another word for controlling. If monogamy is not based on the desire and joy in being together, then it’s control. Good for her that she’s exploring her feelings about sex and sexuality. She may want to do more exploring than you feel comfortable with - if that’s the case, figure out the roots of your discomfort- which is probably insecurity, which leads to control. Still, time with others is time not with you. Having a “relationship” or an imagined “future” with someone does not replace the necessity of also having to have a life.
Thank you for engaging in this conversation, lil! As always, I learn something from you. This is a profound statement you just wrote: Security & control are absolutely related, and even last night as we began this conversation, I told her that I am open to this if it's done in a way that protects my security in feeling desire & excitement towards me/us from her. Still, time with others is time not with you. It's absolutely insecurity because it is time purposefully spent romantically with others, sex doesn't necessarily need to be exclusive, but I think that is a big hangup for me and something worth thinking through. Trust is also something on my mind - is there the level of trust that she can, if she wants to, engage in exploring sex in a way that doesn't always involve me, that it does not result in a romantic pursuit of someone else or the questioning of our romance. Is that controlling. Hm.If monogamy is not based on the desire and joy in being together, then it’s control.
She may want to do more exploring than you feel comfortable with - if that’s the case, figure out the roots of your discomfort- which is probably insecurity, which leads to control.
I agree essentially with kb. If you’re vulnerable, you mght say, “come back after you’ve done your exploring.” That’s respectful, loving, and self-protecting. Or just continue deepening the fun and closeness and base the “relationship” on the shared experiences of feeling heard, understood, and enjoyed. Live the relationship in real time. I suspect that you putting contingencies on her exploring (like the ones you mentioned above) would feel controlling to her. It would be like YOU telling HER the parameters of her self-exploration. Totally and genuinely accept her current presenting self as her best understanding of herself now. Find fun and personal growth in the situation as it is. Have a great dinner tonight!!
Almost not worth saying anything this week. Things are good.
Been dating around a little for the first time in my life, and holy hell are dating apps terrible. Maybe I'm bad at picking people, but I've been on 3 dates so far and they all were a waste of time. I think I'm gonna give up on that for the time being. My other arrangements are decidedly strange, but being out of a 10 year relationship it fits the bill for me because I don't want to get into anything serious for at a minimum one year. Probably more. So i'm seeing people in poly/open relationships that I know - where we have great chemistry and have fun and deep times together, while knowing it's not going to amount to anything serious long term. I joke around telling one of my lovers that he might be poly but i'm just single. In part because I also don't want to get into the partner pandering and reassuring the whole "kitchen table (?)" model entails. I got no energy to manage other people's relations. I've seen these types of relationships all around me for many years now, and while I see plenty of people doing it well and enjoying it, I'm just not built for that and would much prefer a monogamous arrangement in the long run. So somehow seeing "taken" people seems safer because there are less chances of them catching feelings and fucking shit up. In a way, slowly opening up our relationship 6 years in with my ex was a positive experience when we did. We had a fun time at the start. But with time I think it also blinded me to the moment it started going downhill and passed a point of no-return. We probably never would have stayed together anyway, but our downfall would have happened quicker otherwise. I'm still undecided if it was a good thing because it allowed us to explore a different model, from a comfortable trusting place. Or if it was a waste of time that allowed us to drag on something that was already dead. I guess hindsight is 20/20 but I'm not far enough away to see clearly just yet.
Reading your comment after the replies to bfx below was an interesting one. It seems to go in-line with what others say about polyamory and also fits what I have seen around me the past few years. Out of curiosity, is it possible that many poly people around you are burners? Anyway, nothing much of value to say except "Hi, I hope you are well!" And "merry Christmas :D"
Yes, definitely almost all burners or soon to be burners when they inevitably make it out to our regional in the summer. So that might skew my perspective on what poly looks like in the wild. Cause of the smug burner superiority complex about how we do it better than others. Which on many levels I feel like we probably do - and that makes us even more insufferable… Merry Christmas! It’s lining up to be a new year of many changes and fresh starts! Time to make good healthy choices for the future
"Good healthy choices" are overrated. Makes you aim too high and flaggelate yourself later. Make average, okay, decent choices that put you steadily a step further. Small adjustments to your environment that compound over time. You'll look back in astonishment over how much things have changed seemingly on a dime. Best wishes. I believe in you. You got this. Merry Christmas.
Tis the longest day of the year in NZ. Last day of work for me and I'm clearly knackered. Trying to do too much. Example: My mum messaged me this morning "Were you able to buy some BBQ goodies? Are [partner's family] coming along?" I misread this entirely and called her to say that we had confirmed my partner's family were attending Xmas with our family some time ago, and they had sorted accommodation etc. Turns out she meant for an Xmas Eve BBQ that I had forgotten about and failed to invite my partner's family to. But when I read the message I immediately went to "Someone's fucking forgotten the Xmas day plans and I need to organize everything" in 0.4 seconds, when I had absolutely no reason to, and it was actually my own fault for forgetting to mention it to the party in question. So yeah, I'm snappy and cranky and god I want to sleep. Plus side is, everyone is attending a nice Xmas Eve BBQ now. I'm grateful that my family gatherings are genuinely fun and exciting times. We don't have any major drama, or people who don't get along, so I'm really looking forward to seeing everyone and cracking a few beers in the Summer sun. Maybe I'll nick Dad's BBQ tongs and turn the sausages when he's not looking. --- Also I just read this in today's news: https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/central-otago/super-turd-cadogan-celebrates-wastewater-project One of our regional mayors dressed up as a giant piece of shit to celebrate a wastewater milestone. Onya.
I can finally begin data collection on my thesis! Anyone want to write a lot of info on outpatient IV antibiotics for me? For some mysterious reason motivation is just impossible to find.
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Omg I think this might be the first adequately audienced spam on hubski I feel honored.
Actually that's a topic near and dear to my heart, because my company is developing a novel steroid that for now can only be delivered IV, so we always have a raging debate about whether non-hospitalized patients would take the drug even if it's shown to be highly effective, given the burden of having to return to a medical facility daily for 5 to 10 days.
I'll be looking at all cause OPAT failure/adverse safety outcomes using my local VA's OPAT program over the past 3 years. Failure does include rehospitalization. I've done a bit of the lit review so far but everything points to greater satisfaction and reduced cost for outpatient over inpatient with similar efficacy rates. Infection control is a bit iffier, but there are ways to improve that too. There's definitely some of literature about location (home w/o services, home w/ services, SNF, dialysis centers, etc., And what people prefer. If you haven't, check out IDSA's latest OPAT guidance from late 2018, might be useful for your debates. If there's anything I can help with let me know! https://www.idsociety.org/practice-guideline/outpatient-antimicrobial-parenteral-therapy/
I can write it. It's not gonna be correct or even wrong, but I can write it.
Been doing the whole don't-eat-breakfast thing (a.k.a. intermittent fasting to the techier crowd, a.k.a. starving myself into submission) for about a month now, maybe a little less. I find it marginally less torturous than I did in the beginning, but I'm still raging hungry for the first hours of the day. On the plus side, I've lost about 6 lbs in the approximately 4 weeks I've been at it, which is a little ahead of the rate I expected based purely on a calorie-deficit basis. I figured I was cutting about 500/day, which would equate to 1 lb/wk all other things equal. But as we know with biology all other things are rarely equal, so maybe it's 6 lbs this month, but 2 next...who knows. Anyone else have experience with this? Does the hunger get better or is this just me?
Are you consuming enough high-satiety foods (see this chart)? Anecdotally, potatoes in particular were key to eliminating my hunger back when I 'fasted'. If you're not used to it after a month, there's no reason to expect the hunger pangs to 'get better' without changing your diet, food scheduling or appetite suppressants.
My (admittedly limited) understand is: having coffee instead of breakfast negates whatever benefits fasting may bring in its place. Anything that isn't clean water is a xenobiotic, which is something that the digestive system has to process, in one way or another. This, in effect, (re)starts your biological clock, engaging your metabolism – which weens it off burning fats for the time. Or so it's been explained to be.
Cool! But my concern wasn't with hunger suppression: it was with the fact that you're breaking a fast – and, therefore, no longer having your body break down fats for energy, which is the whole point – by drinking anything other than water. To be clear: this is hardly substantiated. I heard a doctor talk about it once on that Joe Rogan show, and now I can't even find the damn clip anymore. If that's wrong, do let me know.
Regarding 'breaking a fast', that really depends on whether someone's following a so-called "water fast" or a simple caloric fast. If you're referring to ketosis, the only thing that can end that is intake of additional carbohydrates. Barring that, your body needs to break down fats (since the biological pathways to consume protein are extremely inefficient) to sustain your BMR, which isn't significantly correlated to current diet.
Good to know. Any additional reading on the matter I, as a newb, could benefit from? (I think I was referring to a caloric fast. The one where I don't eat anything for a while.)
re: ketosis, the Wikipedia article is sufficient for a layman understanding, and the safety section illustrates why keto is not medically advised. re: fasting, this metastudy is a comprehensive overview of the current literature suggesting that intermittent fasting is beneficial to weight loss, though it establishes that this is due to fasting being a useful tool for caloric restriction, not popsci hypotheses involving ketosis or autophagy. Also note that some terminology surrounding fasting, e.g. "breaking" a fast, is fairly arbitrary depending on the speaker and arguably meaningless.
I spent high school as an exercise bulimic. I didn't eat anything before 5:30 pm for four years. I weighed 90lbs less then than I do now, and right now I have a 34" waist. Betr Health refuses you breakfast. I'm mostly fine with it. I generally don't eat anything until 11 or so. But then, I drink coffee. Coffee is an appetite suppressant. If you're fighting hunger, nuts or bananas. We've got a costco container of cashews and a costco container of almonds in the pantry. It's easy to take on too much sodium with nuts, though. Bananas are probably your only source of potassium and you aren't getting enough, guaranteed. Coffee and a banana is a decidedly LA breakfast and it'll make you feel human and not hungry for two or three hours after. If you're hungry you should eat something. The mistake most people make is in eating too much.