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comment by am_Unition
am_Unition  ·  1231 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: The Key to Trump's Appeal

Oh, we will be sacrificing Nate Silver on a bipartisan altar of poopoo'ing for a loooooong time.

I think Sam's right about this. The only thing I'd correct is that Trump doesn't judge his supporters publicly. I fully believe Michael Cohen when he says that Trump is consciously playing his base for schmucks.

(Edit: Maybe) the most damaging thing in american political culture right now is the absolutism, on top of (or because of?) the polarization. Racism is either non-existent, or everyone is racist. Or all white people, at least. Choose one or the other, and it's a "one strike and you're out" rule for the other side of the aisle. Being wrong shouldn't be a death sentence, but conversely, people need to be more open to accepting and admitting that they're wrong. It's all a terrible set of positive feedback loops. Complicated issues are best understood on an infinite dimensional spectrum, but the human brain's natural tendency is binary classification of everything. Unfortunate.

So. Does supporting Trump automatically make someone a racist? I dunno. At the very least, it is a form of complicity in enabling the spread of racial tension. I've had it explained to me that Trump's economic policies somehow make up for this, but I've never heard a person of color make the argument. Well, besides 50-cent bitching about Biden potentially raising his taxes the other day (it didn't go well for him). I don't think any economic policies are worth Trump's inclinations to shred the social fabric of this country along racial lines. And I genuinely don't understand how "power of the individual!" libertarians can support an aspiring autocrat hellbent on consolidating power into the executive. Maybe we should teach history better? To be clear, I'm not accusing you of this particular issue, but we definitely have a collective problem recognizing fascism. But I digress.

Anyway, if we all more often approached a good-faith discussion or debate with people we disagreed with, I think we could see a social healing to a degree that most thought was no longer possible. Again, there has been one particular person doing his best to prevent this; Actively sowing division to mobilize his base of support, knowingly deceiving, modeling dangerous rhetoric, abdicating facts and science, AND LIVING THE ALL CAPS LIFESTYLE, BAYBEH. Hopefully his microphone shrinks enough that we can return to a more reasonable style of interacting. Might have to wreck a few tech giants, though. Fbook and tweeter.com have removed the humanity from our interactions. My profile picture is way easier to punch in the face than my face IRL, I think. Still punchable, though.

It's true that I don't know how to approach a discussion with dyed-in-the-wool Trumpies without coming across as "sanctimonious". Humor, self-deprecation (I've always been so shitty at this, oh wait, hahah, I'm making a joke! Update: It was received as a bad joke, so I'm self-deprecating again), and forgiveness are all on the menu. Forgiveness is only meal-prepped, though, I'm not ready to serve that shit yet.

I'm not convinced that Trump-ist politics is a problem that can be solved, honestly. But I'm still gonna try, because if I just sit on my hands, I'll hate myself forever.





wasoxygen  ·  1231 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I've had it explained to me that Trump's economic policies somehow make up for this, but I've never heard a person of color make the argument.

I can't imagine why the strength of an argument would depend on the color of the person who makes it. Aren't we supposed to judge people by the content of their character?

approximate transcript

    I think his policies have been by and large have been policies that were far better than that of previous Democratic or Republican administrations so I go by the consequences. I mean he hasn't produced the right rhetoric but the fact is that unemployment among low-income people, black, hispanic included, is a level that is far lower than it's been in decades. The economy is booming in a way that no one had predicted, people like Paul Krugman were saying that when Trump gets in the economy is gonna tank; no the economy hit new highs.
user-inactivated  ·  1229 days ago  ·  link  ·  
This comment has been deleted.
wasoxygen  ·  1229 days ago  ·  link  ·  

If we don't judge people, how do we decide who deserves our admiration?

I don't see why an accusation of racism would be untestable. If someone characterizes an entire race of people by saying "they steal, they're dishonest" or they "live like a bunch of dogs" that would seem consistent with the dictionary definition of a belief that "racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race."

    it's important to point out why very few Black people actually voted for Donald Trump

The African-American vote traditionally skews strongly Democratic. Rather than comparing parties it would be more fair to compare Trump to another Republican candidate who doesn't have racist baggage. Or we could compare how African-Americans voted for Trump in 2016 versus 2020 after seeing him operate for four years.

Other people have expressed disapproval of the Black Lives Matter movement, associating it with "hate."

    The baby boomers who drove the success of the civil rights movement want to get behind Black Lives Matter, but the group’s confrontational and divisive tactics make it difficult. In the 1960s, activists confronted white mobs and police with dignity and decorum, sometimes dressing in church clothes and kneeling in prayer during protests to make a clear distinction between who was evil and who was good.

    But at protests today, it is difficult to distinguish legitimate activists from the mob actors who burn and loot. The demonstrations are peppered with hate speech, profanity, and guys with sagging pants that show their underwear. Even if the BLM activists aren’t the ones participating in the boorish language and dress, neither are they condemning it.