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comment by OftenBen
OftenBen  ·  1375 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: If your parents or grandparents still plan on voting for trump...

Your snark presumes that I haven't had it out with them with these arguments.

I. HAVE.

All possible respectful venues i could come up with have been tried and smacked down with bible verses and references to democrats.





kleinbl00  ·  1375 days ago  ·  link  ·  

"Haha!" he said, "It was a trick question all along! I wasn't looking for an answer, I was looking for a fight!"

We've been having these discussions for several years now, haven't we? Can I just point out to you that the way you "debate" anything is to ask a question, ignore the answer and then go "HA HA! you have fallen into my trap! I can now ignore your every sentiment, satisfied in my own smug sense of superiority."

You and I actually agree about nearly everything. Yet your move, without fail, is to pick a fight about the one tiny little aspect where we don't. We're on the same side of this issue yet you have me rooting for your relatives because their disapproval hurts you more. You aren't looking to convince anyone you're looking to self-reinforce your isolation. Do you actually have any confusion whatsoever as to why they don't listen to you?

If you want someone to listen to your arguments, you need to listen to theirs. And then you need to respond to what they say, not what you justify their position to be. Ask yourself these questions, and actually consider the answers:

- Do they love you?

- Do they think you think about things?

- Do they value your opinion?

- Are they willing to listen to you about other issues?

- Is there a bond of kindness, family, familiarity or affinity between you and them that allows you a rhetorical avenue not available to strangers?

If any of the above is true, you need to debate them differently than strangers on the Internet, no matter how much more fun it is to argue about how stupid they are. Nobody wins when everyone just leaves madder.

OftenBen  ·  1374 days ago  ·  link  ·  

No, to all of your questions.

kleinbl00  ·  1374 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Then why the fuck are you having these discussions?

OftenBen  ·  1373 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Because these things matter????

kleinbl00  ·  1373 days ago  ·  link  ·  

So by your own assessment, you are hectoring people who

- Don't love you

- Don't care what you think

- Don't value your opinion

- Are unwilling to listen to you about other issues

- That you have no particular connection with

...out of a sense of zeal...

...and then expressing your frustration to the rest of us in the form of pugnaciousness, truculence and a general combativeness about the futility of debate with a population that you have no empathy for.

Just wanna make sure I've got the full picture here.

b_b  ·  1373 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Whether someone loves OB is different than whether he loves them. The rhetoric notwithstanding, it's hard to give up on family. I could be off base, but clearly he cares out else he wouldn't dedicate any energy to it.

kleinbl00  ·  1373 days ago  ·  link  ·  

don't fuck with my rhetorical flow I've done this before