I feel terrible and elated at the same time.
I've known this person for 20 years. We were close friends for a long time, but he was always a womanizer, and pathologically so. He has consistently cheated on his partners (but insists on a completely monogamous relationship), and he treats them like garbage. I'm good friends with some of them because we have so much shared history, so this isn't just my outside opinion, but also what I've personally seen and heard.
At some point he tried, without anyone's consent or any sort of dialogue on whether it's OK or not, to make several behind-the-scenes passes at my then partner, but while he was married (and his wife didn't know squat about this). He still denies this actually happened. I've absolutely no reason to believe my parntner lied, however. Anyhow, at that point I called it quits on that friendship. The trust had gone, it was dead.
Years go by. We get randomly reunited at some point, and I let bygones be bygones. Copacetic.
He got married for the second time. I got to be friends his new wife as well. You can probably sort of see where this is going; time goes on, she gets a crush on me and I get one on her, we kiss and sort of snuggle when we were slightly tipsy a party, but my friend (ex-friend?) said he was perfectly okay with this.
At some point it dawns on him that she really does have a crush on me, and it's not "just physical" (whatever the hell that is, then). He says he's not OK with her having other romantic relationships (I'm married myself, but in an honest to god open marriage that works well). I try to get him to actually talk with me about what sort of limits are we talking about here, since he was anything but clear about them (I mean, like, could I hang out with his wife as an actual friend and not a "romantic" interest? Crush or not, she's a great person and I'd rather keep her in my life, don't really care if it's romantic or not).
He sulked and refused to talk about the whole thing, and made some honestly ridiculously manipulative comments to his wife about how she's free to do what she wants because he doesn't want to limit his partners' freedom, but she has to "face the consequences". Leaving it up to his wife and me to start guessing what's actually OK and what's not.
Now, I'm painfully aware that the description of events here is one-sided, but I honestly at least strive to be an inclusive and emphatic person, and I believe strongly in open dialogue instead of letting things fester. I honestly expect that my friends are able to openly talk about their feelings and needs.
My attempts to figure out a good way forward that would leave no hard feelings for anyone were met with such amazing displays of outright hostility that I lost my temper.
I absolutely unloaded on him. The hypocrisy of the situation (there's so much I've left out) was just unbelievable: he's now finally facing the same situation all his previous partners have faced when he got a crush on someone else, and instead of even wanting to talk about what happened he goes on the attack. I flat out told him he treats his partners like shit, and that maybe he'll be able to appreciate the irony of this situation after he gets done with his next divorce.
I said so many more terrible things that all of the extended circle of friends have been talking about privately, but which has sort of been taboo because "that's just how he is." Which is why they probably hurt my friend as much as they did.
The worst part is, I'm sort of glad, even though I do feel like shit. Somebody had to have the guts to tell him to his face to reflect on how hypocritical he's being. Jesus, no wonder his wife got a crush on me when I had to remind him to treat her like a person (and honestly very gently).
What a shit show. Didn't sleep a wink, figured I'd just get moderatetly drunk today.
The "hilarious" part is that he's always very much poly (without the actual ethical discussion) when it's his new fling. Every damn time the tables are reversed, he suddenly turns into a "nuclear family is very important to me" person. Literally fucking said that. Had to laugh in disbelief / grief / sheer terror.
I wish this wasn't a familiar story but I've seen it too many times now to be surprised. You did your friend a service telling him those things even if he doesn't see it that way now. I hope things work out amicably (or better) between you and his wife and that he eventually gets a fucking clue!
And what gets me here is that he likely won't learn a thing. But holy shit did it feel good telling that fucker off. "It was like taking off tight shoes". Which is also why I feel terrible about this, but I did my part as ethically as I had the energy to. Dude decides to flip his lid at that, that's his shame and not mine. Even tried to involve my wife in this, since he assumed I'd kept her in the dark and that lying to her woud get him a sympathetic ally. Did not go as he expected.You did your friend a service telling him those things even if he doesn't see it that way now
Yeah, you can't make him learn anything, just offer him something to learn from should he ever decide to. He doesn't want to talk about boundaries or set consistent ones because it'd require him to admit something about himself he doesn't want to. I doubt he consciously understands that, but no matter. Hopefully someday he gets tired of this and figures himself out!
You're right on the money here. And, as said, of course this is a very one-sided account and he has his own version, but despite acting like an absolute bastard I just can't manage to feel I was entirely in the wrong here. He's just got so little capacity for self-reflection that I doubt he'll be learning anything from any of this, if the past 23 years are any indicator. Who knows, people can change, but he's always treated women like shit in general (he's the sort of person who'll grab someone's ass when drunk. He got fired for it once…) and I just don't know if that sort of "feature" can be fixed in any meaningful way considering his personality. But thanks for letting me vent. This was honestly a pretty terrible experience all around and it's nice to be able to let some of this steam out at random internet people.