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comment by steve
steve  ·  2423 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Your load is too heavy: Zork deep reading

    The very idea that a videogame should be fair, or even winnable, was hazy. It was perfectly normal for a game to just get harder and harder until it killed you.

an allegory for life





kleinbl00  ·  2423 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Bruce Sterling's Islands in the Net, a seminal work of cyberpunk, made the point that video games that become harder and harder until you eventually succumb was a keenly Cold War mentality about entertainment. The nihilism of struggling against antagonists until they beat you was held up as a symptom of the core belief that eventually we'd all get nuked anyway. It actually plays into the core plot of the story, which is fundamentally about the uneasy border between optimism and pessimism in futurism.

steve  ·  2423 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    a seminal work of cyberpunk

but enjoyable? Do you recommend?

    video games that become harder and harder until you eventually succumb was a keenly Cold War mentality about entertainment.

we're a bit on the tail end of it... but yah... that rings true.

kleinbl00  ·  2423 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It was written in '88. It's about Zaibatsus and terrorism and killer drones and rastafarians, as most of them were. It was "near future" back then; it's now "alternate future." I reckon it's aged a lot better than the Walter Jon Williams stuff but it hasn't proven to be nearly as seminal as William Gibson.

    we're a bit on the tail end of it... but yah... that rings true.

This was an '88 perspective on '81 and '82. Legend of Zelda had been out for two years by then; people were clearly expecting more from video games already. The Berlin Wall was a year from falling. I would say it was a fairly insightful viewpoint for the time.

steve  ·  2423 days ago  ·  link  ·  

the tail end... I think I meant you and I are old enough that we were on the tail end of the cold war... if you're like me, you played "guns" as a kid and ran around shooting each other, but only after deciding who would be "the Ruskies".

ButterflyEffect  ·  2423 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Hah, we did the same thing growing up! Cowboys and Indians (...yikes...) / Cops and Robbers, though.

kleinbl00  ·  2423 days ago  ·  link  ·  

End, yeah. But I dunno, man. Between the Evil Empire speech, SDI, KAL007 and the occupation of Afghanistan it sure didn't feel like the "tail."

steve  ·  2423 days ago  ·  link  ·  

it doesn't feel like it now... we were clearly in it... but at the time, I wasn't aware of it all.

kleinbl00  ·  2423 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I was constantly aware.

We knew where the major strike was likely to be, what the fallout would be, what missile would carry it...

steve  ·  2422 days ago  ·  link  ·  

We had two books that had full color layouts comparing the US arsenal to the USSR's (one might have been the encyclopedia?). I would lay there for hours looking at those pictures. crazy times to be sure.

mk  ·  2423 days ago  ·  link  ·  

And a MO for better games.

kleinbl00  ·  2423 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I disagree entirely.

Entirely.

When the design of the game is structured towards your eventual demise, there is no impetus to create novel, creative stages that differ from one another because after all, the goal of the game is to kill you before you've run out of stages. Therefore you have two choices: make every level an iteration on the level before or, when you've run out of levels, make it impossible to win. Or both. Either way, there is no reward to the player to strive other than stubbornness and addiction. The player is effectively a pest that the game must eliminate.

On the other hand, a game designed to be won creates incentives for the designers to create challenges - but not insurmountable challenges - that the designers and players must effectively collaborate on. The game has to be tough enough to be fun but not so tough that players don't get to see all the cool shit you created for them.

It was different when you only had 20k of memory across the entire system of a Pac Man arcade. Destiny 2 is rumored to be 68GB for preload on Xbone.

I'm giving you precious hours of my life. Don't be a douche and treat me like a pest.