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comment by WanderingEng
WanderingEng  ·  2444 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Pubski: July 19, 2017

You're right, and I've known other engineers who struggle to apply concepts and are much more comfortable just taking direction. I really wanted him to succeed, and he just isn't. While I've worked with others like this, maybe it's my first time training someone who doesn't pick up the concepts.





kleinbl00  ·  2444 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Success in engineering school is all about reading engineering problems. Success in engineering is all about writing engineering problems. I had a real inferiority complex in engineering school because everyone was always better than me... then we got to capstone design and these mutherfuckers didn't know how a doorknob worked. And, once shown, they couldn't take it apart, put it back together or repair it, let alone draw it or modify it.

Sometimes you can get the unimaginative to grasp the issues of the boundless story problem by getting them to find the bounds. Iteration is a matter of understanding that the solution of the problem is the conditions of the next problem until you no longer care about the outcome.

Sometimes.

snoodog  ·  2444 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I don't think a door knob is an example of a simple initiative designed. It's a really common object but it's actually quite complex and it likely not something most people could describe much less draw. I bet if you asked 100 engineers to draw a scketch of a door knob working mechanism you would get 90-95 different designs that look nothing like a door knob does

kleinbl00  ·  2443 days ago  ·  link  ·  

An engineer that can't come up with a doorknob isn't an engineer. There's nothing complex about a doorknob. It's a lever, a spring and some grease.

snoodog  ·  2443 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Its not about coming up with 'A' door knob. Its about arriving at the same design thats used everywhere. There are many ways to get a functional door knob but some are significantly simpler than others.

Devac  ·  2443 days ago  ·  link  ·  
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kleinbl00  ·  2443 days ago  ·  link  ·  
Devac  ·  2443 days ago  ·  link  ·  
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WanderingEng  ·  2443 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Your backyard furnace would be the kind of thing that would get you hired over another candidate.

Devac  ·  2443 days ago  ·  link  ·  
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WanderingEng  ·  2443 days ago  ·  link  ·  

If it were me, it's a story I'd remember for the interview.

You're right that it might not fit for a programmer, but it might. It shows problem solving skills and a personal interest in learning new things.

Sorry about bringing up a difficult topic.

kleinbl00  ·  2443 days ago  ·  link  ·  

That's pretty badass. How'd you keep the oxygen out?

You might dig this publisher

Devac  ·  2443 days ago  ·  link  ·  
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WanderingEng  ·  2444 days ago  ·  link  ·  

And I think success in engineering school is about learning how to solve a problem where the method is given and the result is unknown. In my experience, in practice engineering is knowing the answer and then figuring out how various methods prove (or just as often disprove) that answer.

    Sometimes you can get the unimaginative to grasp the issues of the boundless story problem by getting them to find the bounds.

I've tried this, and "unimaginative" is a good description. I had one success on Monday with "(blank) didn't have any effect" (which was the correct observation). Then today when trying to coax him into an observation he went back to "I could try (blank)."

I'll have to think about why that didn't work.

ButterflyEffect  ·  2439 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yep, it seems like most things go the road of "well, x is what I want/needs to happen given our current equipment/business processes, but y is what is currently happening. How do I get to x?"

What about something along the lines of asking him to come up with multiple possible solutions, and then asking him to rank them with reasoning? Kind of promotes more typical problem solving and might indirectly lead him into the wonderful world of some basic principles of risk and project management.

Devac  ·  2444 days ago  ·  link  ·  
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rezzeJ  ·  2444 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Perhaps something you could try is getting him to explain back to you, in his own words, the concepts you just explained to him. Not only does this force him to process the information on another level, but hopefully it should give you a clearer picture of the things he's not understanding.

As kleinbl00 said in a post of his a few days ago: the best way to learn something is to teach it. If you can get the intern to 'teach' the things he's currently not getting, it might go some way to helping him progress.

WanderingEng  ·  2444 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I've tried this a bit without stopping to think about it. Maybe I could ask him to write down instructions on doing this analysis under the guise of "documenting for future interns." It might help him think more about the why of his work. Thanks, I'll give this a try.