a thoughtful web.
Good ideas and conversation. No ads, no tracking.   Login or Take a Tour!
comment by kleinbl00
kleinbl00  ·  2794 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Pubski: August 3, 2016

I once sat in a closed room full of executives and watched the president of DC comics observing that the comic-buying audience is only a couple hundred thousand people while the viewing audience of "Arrow" was about four million... and that with numbers like that, they could burn the comic readers without any guilt whatsoever.





user-inactivated  ·  2794 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think with comics there will be that niche place for "purists." I think it'll be in the form of works from indie artists and publishers that aren't the big 2.

kleinbl00  ·  2794 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I have several friends that have attempted to make a living off of niche purists.

Most of them make their living storyboarding big bombastic shit like Teenaged Mutant Ninja Turtles.

user-inactivated  ·  2794 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think the Stan Sakais (a great artist with little mainstream success who has managed to continue working for decades) and Neil Gaimans (a great artist with a lot of mainstream success) of the comics world will continue to rare. I think the majority of artists will have to be content writing or drawing for the main stream to gain a modest income and rely on side projects for their more creative ideas. There are a lot of really great comics out there that sadly don't last long enough to come to a conclusion just because nit enough people buy their books.

kleinbl00  ·  2794 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Neil Gaiman is an author, not an artist.

user-inactivated  ·  2794 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Well, writing is a type of art and the comics industry is full of writers who don't draw.

kleinbl00  ·  2794 days ago  ·  link  ·  

No. You don't get to do that. You don't get to conflate the two.

Comic artists are people who draw. They used to make about $850 a page, but the going rate is now under $200 for the indies because they're directly competing against Korea and Slovenia.

Comic writers are people who write. They've never made much money. Consider: Stan Lee didn't get fucking paid for the Spiderman movies until he sued. In the comics industry, it's the writer who pays because for a brief shining moment there was a chance that someone in a secondary market would pick up your writing. Steve Niles - couldn't get "30 days of night" made as a script, so he paid Ben Templesmith to paint it up, so the rights got sold, so it became a movie.

The apocryphal statistic is there are more players in the NBA than there are working screenwriters in Hollywood. The screenwriters have an advantage over the comic writers, though - nobody ever expects a screenwriter to chip in on the movie. If he does, he becomes a producer. All the little indie houses you know? I've got quotes from them on turning my writing into comics. A comic in your shop costs me about as much as a new car in my garage.

I hate to beat you down on this but your speculation does not trump my experience.

And you're wrong.

user-inactivated  ·  2794 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Hey. Before we go further, I just want to say I'm not looking for a debate nor am I trying to manipulate the conversation. I was just sharing my thoughts.

I don't know in detail the pros and cons for being a writer versus being an illustrator in comics. I've been under the impression that for the most part, the industry was hard for everyone and there isn't much money in it these days. From what I understand, while working for Marvel and DC pays better, it's still not an amazing amount, hence artists and writers doing things on the side like running blogs and visiting conventions.

In my mind, the way that I've seen it, writers and artists have always been the same, but different. I personally follow writers more than artists, while I know others prefer to follow artists more than writers.

Don't get me wrong, I love comics. I borderline obsess over them. Unlike cars though, I don't focus much on the workings of the comics industry through. I find the workings often seem convoluted and confusing for one, and for two, a lot of the major players with their blogs and twitter accounts and interviews often seem to be very political and gossipy. r/comics often likes to discuss the controversy of the week between person a and person b, but I find that stuff off putting more often than not.

kleinbl00  ·  2794 days ago  ·  link  ·  

k. Just keep in mind that your "thoughts" are just that, while mine are experiences, and that while you may not know "in detail the pros and cons for being a writer versus being an illustrator in comics" those differences are very real and shape the experiences of all who derive income (or attempt to) in the field for which you profess your love.

user-inactivated  ·  2794 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yeah. But I swear, I wasn't trying to discredit you or anything. I should have used the term "creator" or something. It was just a miscommunication.

kleinbl00  ·  2794 days ago  ·  link  ·  

'sall good. I'm particularly bitter today. I know a guy with a movie in development at Nickelodeon who has writing credits on a half dozen episodes of Sponge Bob. He lives up the fucking street. He's got the agent I don't, the connections I lack, the success that has eluded me and he's making about enough scratch to afford to live in the bargain-basement shithole I'm tucked into to save money while paying for the real house.

And here I am, writing another fuckin' spec screenplay.

Was talking to the other roommate yesterday. He interviewed for a promotion. Prolly gonna turn it down because it isn't enough for him to commute in from here (he works from home). College grad, nice kid.

I make nearly a factor of ten more than he does per hour.

I'm coming from a place of incredible privilege. Don't get me wrong - I worked hard for it. But I see the shithole that you have to live in to hardscrabble your way up in the creative side of the industry and it's just gobsmackingly repellant. I remain one of the more successful screenwriters I know, with two options and real ca$h money behind my writing, and my wife makes more in a month than I ever earned writing.

I make more in three weeks.

user-inactivated  ·  2793 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It's okay. I'm not mad. If it's worth anything, I understand the sentiments that a lot in life seem off balance right now. If you ever do want to vent, just say "Bosses suck" and I'll say "ain't that the truth."

user-inactivated  ·  2794 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I don't think there are many places where the creative work is where the money is. A few of my friends went into automated trading and they make the big bucks, but they're the only exceptions I know.

kleinbl00  ·  2794 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I also know the guys who sold the screenplay for Deja Vu for nine million.

Know what? They aren't happy either. But they also don't live in Cypress Park.