What do we get out of doing that, though? Islam has a history of destroying idols, sequestering women, calcifying culture and otherwise fitting poorly into this modern world... but so does Christianity, Hinduism and Buddhism and despite all that, the freedoms and liberties that make the modern world modern arose out of those religions such that we can now point at "islam" as the root cause of all evil because we're so liberated and modern. But radicals have to be radicalized. Anwar al-Awlaki used to go on PBS to explain Islam and provide national perspective prior to being persecuted and subverted by the FBI. Within five years he was calling for jihad from Yemen. France is full of muslims. Nearly all of them have no interest in shooting up Kosher markets. The more of them get blamed for shooting up kosher markets, the more of them start to align with the kill the infidel wing. There's a whole lot of Islam. And yeah - I wouldn't want to open a gay club in Afghanistan, either. But I know muslims from Afghanistan that don't give the first fuck about yours, my, or anyone else's sexual orientation. And every time we say "your religion is to blame" we're driving a wedge between us and the people we're reliant on to make Islam less of of a violent, reactionary influence.
There are a few things giving me pause in replying to you. Mainly that I want to respect the conversation you're having with white2 and not me, and also because white2 is probably capable of speaking for themselves. But your reply is uncharitable and seems counterproductive to you're stated aims. Who doesn't form opinions on incomplete information? When is information complete? When you say that it is? I appreciate you wanting to limit misinformation, or to properly categorize opinion and fact. But there's a discussion going on about the proper response to terrorism. Hell, we might never agree as to what our subject even is, let alone what conclusions we should draw. But, tell me. What facts are here? What are the some valid conclusions you can draw that are "knowledgeable". I don't mean this sarcastically. If you don't have anything to say, that's perfectly ok. But other people do. And instead of listening, cogitating, responding or asking questions, you instead soapbox about something as uncontroversial as "let's all be more rigorous in our thought process." There isn't enough due diligence in the world to form the proper response to mass murder, to gun reform, or to the global clash of cultures. So in the meantime, we get together and try to figure it out, very slowly and painfully. These conversations are hard in the best of times, and aren't better served with a participant with a minority opinion being lambasted on flimsy semantical grounds. Forming opinions on incomplete information is an automatic process. It's so automatic, that the irony of this sentence seems lost on you: You acknowledge your lack of knowledge, form an opinion, and then drew a conclusion. You called it like you saw it. But what bothered me most is that you went to such pain to silence white2, despite your open disinterest in our discussion. If you're "not really interested in this conversation as a whole," then at the very least don't shut others down.Maybe I read to much into what you're saying, but I'm fairly certain you acknowledge forming opinions on incomplete information and that my friend will get you nowhere.
Okay, let's talk about this. For starters, I'm going to reflect back your statements as a summary in order to refine the nature of your argument. If I understand you correctly, your primary arguments are: 1) It's important to acknowledge the radical message coming out of the religious leaders of Islam, which cannot be done without acknowledging the radical nature of Islam. 2) Islam is radical because the Koran is radical, and leaves little room for interpretation. Therefore, the source of radical Islam is Islam itself, and any true interpretation of the Koran will lead to a violent and regressive creed. If this is the basis of your argument let me know. Because then we can begin. If not, correct at will because this is an important discussion.
I wouldn't put it that way. I do feel that there are many aspects of many religions that are fully open to criticism and I think a case could be made that Islam, in general, tends to more violence-prone sects than, say, Judaism. But it's a complex discussion that doesn't lend itself well to bumper sticker talk. I would have welcomed that discussion, and still do, and want you to know that at no point was there the slightest whiff of "this guy has his head up his ass."