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comment by kleinbl00
kleinbl00  ·  2917 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Comparison: Tesla Model 3 vs. Chevrolet Bolt

...sorry, got distracted by that McLaren video playing on the right, which shows about how much interest I have in 4-door electric economy cars.

THAT SAID

Tesla has an edge in that they don't have to turn a profit. Tesla subsidizes your purchase of their cars by $4000 each which is the sort of thing you can afford to do when you're in that halo of market penetration awesomeness and none of your shareholders expect you to make money. GM, on the other hand, gets hammered whenever they don't produce a dividend.

Tesla also has an edge in that they don't have to stick to their guns. They jacked up the price on the Roadster and the S between taking orders and delivering and because they've got the halo, people either pay it or sell their places in line. Ain't nobody getting in line for this thing.

Finally, Tesla has an edge in that they aren't having to be a car company. they get to be a bespoke gadget company that swoops in with white gloves and fixes things without you really knowing what's wrong, whereas Chevy has a whole dealer network full of cranky people who want to know why their electric car doesn't have the range they were promised even though they spent $3k more than if they'd just bought a Prius like their mother told them to.

It really isn't going to come down to which is a better car - the Model 3 has to be, hands down. It'll come down to what sort of excesses the market will permit of Elon Musk because he's Elon Musk.

I just wish they weren't all so forgettably ugly. I mean, even the wholly imaginative renderings of the upcoming roadster are boring. THIS IS YOUR MIATA ON PROZAC





WanderingEng  ·  2917 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    This is their Tesla for normal people

Tesla's greatest marking victory is convincing people this is true. There are many worthy discussions on maintenance and fuel costs, but comparing the $35k base model price for the Model 3:

Ford's top end car is the Taurus starting at $27k. The only model higher than $35k is the Expedition. One could buy two Fiestas or two Focuses for $35k.

Mazda's entire line is less than $35k (though they don't currently show a price for the CX-9, their SUVan). One could buy two Mazda 3s for $35k.

Subaru's entire line maxes out at $26.5k for a WRX or Crosstrek hybrid. Two Imprezas would run $36.5k.

Honda's entire line is also below $35k. Two Fits would run less than $32k.

Toyota finally gets into the $35k range with the Avalon... oh this is the hybrid, for $36k. The gas one is their top-of-the-line car for $32.5k. The Prius C starts at $20k, or one could get two Yarises or two Corollas for $35k.

I think I'm looking in the wrong place.

BMW starts around $33k for a 2 or 3 series.

A Mercedes C class starts at $39k.

Cadillac starts at $33k for the ATS sedan.

Audi starts at $31k with the A3.

Lexus starts at $37k with the IS.

Tesla is still catering to a luxury crowd. It's still people who want to impress their neighbors. With a BMW comparison, they've moved down from where a 7 series would impress people to where a 3 series does. Around me, "normal" ranges from about a base model Honda Civic up to a nicely equipped Accord.

user-inactivated  ·  2917 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm on my phone and about to head into work, so I'll have to keep this short.

Tesla is selling in the luxury price range, because their cars are more expensive to manufacture. This is because of both the technology of the car as well as volume. They don't actually compare to luxury vehicles. I have sat in a Model S. I've also ridden shotgun in Mercedes, Jaguars, and Lexuses. Teslas are nicer than Civics for example, but they're not Mercedes nice.

Also, the $35,000 is normal people price and seems quite reasonable. The Chevy Bolt will sell for near similar price and both the Nissan Leaf and the Ford Focus Electric scratch around $30,000 as well.

Tesla is compared to other luxury cars because of their price point. That doesn't mean they're actually luxury cars though. You can get Camaros and Mustangs for $40,000 easily. That doesn't actually make them luxury cars either.

kleinbl00  ·  2917 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Federal and state subsidies knock between $7500 and $13,500 off the price, depending on what state you live in. That puts the $35k-$43k price range for a Model 3 in the $21k-$35k range, which has your entire non-luxury line covered.

WanderingEng  ·  2917 days ago  ·  link  ·  

The $7500 federal subsidy is currently limited to 200,000 cars from any one manufacturer, and Wired speculates Tesla will be halfway there by the end of 2016 and closing in on the cap by the time Model 3s start to roll out.

kleinbl00  ·  2917 days ago  ·  link  ·  

That does nothing to invalidate my point. The people putting deposits down on Teslas are absolutely banking on those subsidies, which equalize the field.

WanderingEng  ·  2917 days ago  ·  link  ·  

They may be banking on the subsidies but many will be very disappointed. Or they'll be in a position where they could have afforded a series 3 anyway.

Subsidies come and go. The solar power industry is going through this now.

thenewgreen  ·  2917 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Man, that Miatta on Prozac is actually a pretty damn good looking buggy imo.

I see a lot of these in town. My neighbor has one. It's a nice ride. He loves it. Did his research too.

As for sustainability, I just bought my first bike since I was 14.

kleinbl00  ·  2917 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Ahhh, yes. The BMW SadPanda.

Making the Aztek look cool since 2014.

snoodog  ·  2915 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Ha I agree. You can get them leased for about 300 /mo but they are still pasticy and shitty inside. Idk why anyone would want one. My coworker go a killer lease deal on his leave (less than 200 a month) and at $4 gas that made sense but other than that electric cars still got a ways to go.