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comment by kleinbl00
kleinbl00  ·  2928 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Why Bernie Sanders Already Won

Here's the problem - the fiscally-conservative, socially-liberal Republicans that Liked Ike can't afford to be Republicans anymore. You've got the rich, who want their taxes reduced, and you've got the poor, who want someone to protect them from ISIS and/or Caitlin Jenner. Back when the middle class was growing, you could stitch together a platform that might appeal to both of them but for the past 20 years or so the rich have had to trick the poor into voting against their interests through demagoguery. They've been so successful at it, though, that they can't grab any more money... and they're uncomfortable giving more social crazyness.

So who's voting for Nikki Haley? And why aren't they voting for Hillary Clinton? Because I'll say it again - she almost passed Hillarycare while Rush Limbaugh was actively accusing her of murder. Maybe she doesn't believe in anything. Fine by me - the '90s kinda worked out, yo. Really - Hillary Clinton is the nicest Republican you could vote for. That she's been a Democrat since 1968 definitely speaks to your point but I will take Little Finger over Ned Stark any day.

This magical Republican Party you envision, my friend, is the Democratic Party.





goobster  ·  2927 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think we are saying the same thing, just shouting at each other from two mountaintops next to each other.

Actual real life Republicans (like my Mom) are disgusted by what the Republican Party has become. It no longer reflects their conservative beliefs. I remember R friends just being astounded that the GOP cared about what people were doing in their bedrooms. I mean, totally flabbergasted. They were like, "Who cares? That ain't the governments' place to be."

But ever since George Jr, things have continued to get more histrionic and loony for the GOP. They've gone so far right they are coming around the other side again.

It's been FOUR Presidential terms since my Republican friends have openly called themselves "Republican", without immediately following that with a paragraph of caveats that sound like a Lipitor ad.

And I truly believe there is a huge majority of American Republicans that find the GOP repugnant, but won't vote for a Democrat. Ever.

NOBODY out there represents them. And they are being painted with the same brush as the Bundy idiots, Cruz, Trump, and every other repugnant fuck that says they are a Republican.

All those people are gonna go SOMEWHERE, and it sure isn't over to the Donkeys, and they've already written off the GOP. They aren't going to go for Rand Paul, or LaRouche, or any of those nutballs, either.

But I tell ya, if at the Republican National Convention John McCain stands up holding hands with Nikki Haley... even I'm gonna vote Republican. It'll be a landslide.

Republicans needs someone with classic republican values. Nowadays, with the data and analytical tools we have available to us, a truly classically "conservative" party would not only win, they would have a tremendous positive effect on all the issues people really care about on a day-to-day basis.

kleinbl00  ·  2927 days ago  ·  link  ·  

We're not, not entirely. I'm saying "actual real life republicans (like your mom)" have either bailed or are in denial. Robert Bork was '87, yo. When Bob Packwood says he is "convinced that Judge Bork . . . will do everything possible to cut and trim the liberties that the right of privacy protects" your "mainstream" Republicans are minority anachronisms. Before Nancy Reagan came out in favor of stem cell research, her husband embargoed that shit for 8 years. Then he proposed a constitutional amendment allowing prayer in schools.

The Republicans - like your mom - that are still hiding in their foxholes praying for a return to Buckley-era conservative thought are mostly in denial that the Democrats appropriated their platform long ago. The denial runs so deep that you're talking about voting for a member of the Keating Five. Meanwhile out in the world I've had to have the "death panel" discussion with people I like who still think Obama is a secret Muslim.

The people you're talking about are those so set in their ways they don't want to face the fact that their tribe hasn't given a fuck about them since the Iran hostage crisis. And that's where we disagree: nobody in the machine is going to wake up tomorrow and think "shit, we never should have listened to Grover Norquist!" It's all Taliban, all the time, and the people who know Barry Goldwater from something other than a history book are just the tail that the crazies know will vote for their cause until they die out of pure naked nostalgia.

The Koch brothers? Not Republicans. Libertarians. David fuckin ran for VP in 1980. Those caveats? Those are the party. Effectively, your mom's generation are saying "The one thing I'm not is a Democrat."

goobster  ·  2927 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I'm saying "actual real life republicans (like your mom)" have either bailed or are in denial.

But. This is it. "Bailed to where?" and "With how many others?"

The histrionics and theater of the last 12 months only account for a tiny fraction of the people in the US that call themselves "Republicans", and the number of disenfranchised Republicans continues to grow every time Trump opens his big dumb mouth.

Ironically, Trump supporters have started to wave signs that say "Silent Majority", without apparent ironic intent.

They miss that when a firebrand political fringe last self-applied that moniker, it was a spectacular failure. The media bought their story hook, line, and sinker, and then when they called for "100,000 Moral Majority members" to come out to the Capital Mall in protest, I think 2500 people showed up.

The "Moral Majority" moniker became a huge liability, and they couldn't even pay for airtime after that.

So. Today, a bunch of asshats are dancing around like lunatics in the town square, claiming they have an army outside the city gates. But as soon as they open the gates, like Munchausen, they are gonna find the fields empty. Or, more likely, populated with a few radical nutballs dressed like walls, who the Republicans wouldn't even let inside their gated communities, much less sit down to caucus with.

So what happens to all the disenfranchised Republicans? Are you saying they just man up and become Hillary Democrats?

kleinbl00  ·  2927 days ago  ·  link  ·  

"Bailed to the Democrats" and "With everyone else willing to swallow their tribalisms."

Going back to your mom & posse - the "Actual real-life Republicans" - I think it's fair to say that the following describes a disaffected voter:

    Actual real life Republicans (like my Mom) are disgusted by what the Republican Party has become. It no longer reflects their conservative beliefs. I remember R friends just being astounded that the GOP cared about what people were doing in their bedrooms. I mean, totally flabbergasted. They were like, "Who cares? That ain't the governments' place to be."

    But ever since George Jr, things have continued to get more histrionic and loony for the GOP. They've gone so far right they are coming around the other side again.

    It's been FOUR Presidential terms since my Republican friends have openly called themselves "Republican", without immediately following that with a paragraph of caveats that sound like a Lipitor ad.

You're reaching back to '81 to find examples of that "tiny fraction" failing to find traction. Ted Cruz was in 4th grade. Hell, Gorbachev had just hit the Politburo. There's so much history between then and now that it's barely worth mentioning. But you're using this example to prove that there are lessons to be learned by the modern Republican Party, as if the lunatic asshats hadn't been in place for generations.

The ARLRs have either been Democrats since 2008 or they haven't been paying attention. The barbarians have been inside the gates for decades. If Trump's what it takes for them to realize it, maybe he actually has done some good.