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comment by arguewithatree

The perception of "shouting" comes from marginalized people's frustration at having to defend themselves over and over and over from the same repetitive questions. It is exhausting to be expected to put on the teaching hat every time someone has a question.

Cultural appropriation refers to the stripping of cultural symbols of their meaning or using them in a derogatory way. For example, native headdresses are equivalent to medals of honor bestowed upon soldiers and must be earned. That's why throwing it on for something like a Halloween party or a music festival is hurtful -- people are taking the symbol and disregarding the meaning.

Black hairstyles are often referred to as unkempt or unprofessional on black people, but on white people, they're quirky and unique. Black people frequently get fired for wearing their hair naturally or in styles that express their blackness. Other people can put it on and take it off as they desire, but black people don't just get to say "today i don't feel like being black".





Isherwood  ·  3079 days ago  ·  link  ·  

ON the subject of shouting. I've noticed that a lot of people that are around me get their daily dose of racial conversation from second hand sources, from the news, or viral videos, or forum posts, instead of one on one conversations or physical interactions with individuals in their own community.

Those distanced conversations are decidedly one sided - you hear someone shouting and you naturally get rampped up, but you have no outlet to let out your ire. The conversation revolves only around discussions that conversations which have become heated enough to be yelling matches, and they generally only start at the most heated part of the conversation. You go from cat video to yelling match in a matter of seconds and it seems to make the human psyche get really boiled up.

Recently, we did a tour of churches in our town - going to about two dozen churches in two dozen weeks, and listening to what they have to say. We heard from all kind of people with all kind of opinions about the state of the moral world, and listening to those groups was much more calm and informative because we weren't just having the conversation, we we're getting the context.

I am sure the majority of people won't want to compensate for the discrepancy in effort expenditure between watching a 4 minute video and going and meeting people and learning their culture, but the people who do have the best chance of implementing real change (in my opinion at least).

bioemerl  ·  3079 days ago  ·  link  ·  

For example, there was recently a video on /r/videos of some asian woman giving a speech about some racism she faced, and where she mentions it as a less of "Black people can be racist too" and the reaction to it should go unsaid among the protesters.

However, watching the video in context, that person's story was absolutely out of context, and in the background someone says "This is why we need this space, so these conversations can happen, if we agree or disagree with them".

Which really changed my perspective on what happened, turning that group from unreasonable idiots to a decently reasonable protest, although I still have a suspicion of this "space" not being too open to "all discussion", I am much more willing to support their protests as a result of watching the whole video and learning the whole context.

Especially considering that, after the one group tried to stop recording, the "concerned students group" told everyone "let people record, don't stop them"

user-inactivated  ·  3079 days ago  ·  link  ·  
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arguewithatree  ·  3079 days ago  ·  link  ·  

This is why it is exhausting. It's a million waves with all the strength of the ocean crashing on a a stubborn cliff over and over and over, and maybe a few grains of sand are worn away. It can't all be on marginalized people; the majority has to want to learn. And they have demonstrated repeatedly that they don't want to. People tone police and expect others to quietly accept generations of being ignored and repressed and shat on. MLK didn't shout and guess where that got him? It doesn't matter what marginalized people do; they will always be "complaining" or "whining" or "shouting".

If I step on your foot and you say "ow that hurts", is that an invitation for me to debate you on how much it hurts? You don't REALLY hurt I didn't step on you THAT hard. No. You expect me to move, apologize, and watch where I'm going next time.

Do you really think that a student who dressed up as a soldier with awards and honors and gets sloppy drunk and posts pictures on facebook wouldn't be criticized? I'm sure people would be all up in arms because it's disrespectful as hell. If someone says hey it's really shitty that you're wearing my religious symbols as your costume, why the hell do people think it's ok to say "no dude I'm honoring you" when clearly that person isn't feeling honored at all? Additionally, a lot of times I see girls wearing sexualized native woman costumes which is extra gross because native women face a higher rate of sexual assault than other women.

I just pulled this white girl in dreads off of pinterest. She's being celebrated and treated as an aesthetic and an image to recreate while shit like this happens to black people

user-inactivated  ·  3079 days ago  ·  link  ·  
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arguewithatree  ·  3079 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm just trying to make a comparable analogy. The recipient feels the hurt and the giver should learn from it. That's all I'm trying to say.

I'm also trying to say that it's not a recipient of "shouting"'s place to determine whether or not shouting is effective by demonstrating WHY they are shouting to be heard and still not being heard. Does that make sense?

    you have to be prepared that they might just look at you funny and say, "uh, so? It's halloween, dude."

this is the problem people are trying to combat. it's about trying to get people to listen to those who are trying to start the conversation.

I'm hoppin' on public transit soon so deuces for now

user-inactivated  ·  3079 days ago  ·  link  ·  
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