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comment by TheVenerableCain
TheVenerableCain  ·  3162 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: My customers are my friends. Ummm.... NO, THEY'RE NOT!

I've always tested as INTJ as well, but this test says ISTP. I did score a 99% on introversion so at least that's about right. All of these tests ask the same basic questions multiple times per test and just word them differently. I assume it's to balance scores, but it's annoying to answer "you would rather read a book than go to a party" and then turn around and answer "you don't enjoy parties as much as reading" or what have you. Interesting, but I don't feel it describes my personality particularly well. Still, it's a fun 5 minute break from work.

As for your sales series, I have to admit that I don't have a very positive view of sales, probably due to movies/shows/my dad, but I'm going to try to word this in a non-hostile way. If you think I'm being a dick, sorry! I promise I'm not trying to be one. I really do enjoy reading about your work and am very curious to know how it all works. I know nothing about the sales world so be prepared for some stupid questions if you decide to read on.

I can't help but feel that everything in sales is contrived and designed to purposefully sell things that maybe the customer doesn't really need. This isn't due to what you're saying, but my own uninformed view. Do you as a salesperson have a genuine concern for the issues that your customer faces and have a desire for them to succeed or is the goal just to sell more things? I'm certain that you want their business to grow so that you can continue selling more things to them, but do you have to balance their growth with your own sales goals? Speaking of, what kind of goals do you (salespeople in general) have? Sale quotas, dollar quotas, or something else? How do things like having Billy Bob as a customer for 20 years who only buys $10,000 in goods/services a year compare to Joe Dirt who pays $100k this year and you never see him again? I guess my question there is who is the more valuable customer? Is that question even relevant?

Hypothetical - your customer says he needs a bigger refrigerator, but you convince him that he needs a bigger freezer as well. He doesn't necessarily need a bigger freezer, but you've convinced him that he does. Is it due to you projecting a future need for more frozen storage for him or a present want for more money for you? Is there an established ethical guideline or is it more of a personal one that you set for yourself? How do you know that you're acting in the customer's best interests and not just your own (I'm assume you try and have a healthy balance), or is that a consideration? Is this even a realistic scenario?

The things you've posted such as mirroring and paraphrasing also seem very odd to me. For example, you said

    Prospect: We are down about 12% year to date in the southeastern US market. This means we are likely not going to be able to open our new southeast facility until fourth quarter 2016.

    Salesperson: Okay, so what you are saying is that you would like to be able to open up your new southeast facility sooner, but because of sluggish sales in that region, you will have to wait until late 2016.

    Prospect: Yes, unfortunately, that's where we find ourselves.

Do people not get annoyed when someone does that? "Yes, I just said that (and now I'm annoyed)" is what I think when I read the salesperson's response. As for mirroring, I just think "are you copying me?" suspicious squint. I do realize that you put disclaimers at the bottom for newbies about being genuine, but I'm curious as to how this actually works. Maybe I shouldn't own a business.

Anyway, sorry again if this comes off as rude. I'm curious as to how this works with more normal people.





thenewgreen  ·  3162 days ago  ·  link  ·  

No need to apologize, those are legitimate questions for someone outside of sales to have.

    I can't help but feel that everything in sales is contrived and designed to purposefully sell things that maybe the customer doesn't really need.
I've never had to sell something like that, but it definitely exists. The negative feelings you have towards the profession of sales likely stems from this. Just like most professions, there are "levels" of different professionalism.

I've never sold something to someone that I thought they'd regret. That's the truth. That would be a really shitty feeling because I would have had to be a liar in order to have gained the sale. Again, I'm sure people do it, but I've only sold high integrity products in verticals where my product/services were well regarded.

The companies I have worked for would have reprimanded me if I had knowingly sold people the wrong product or something they clearly could not use.

As for your other question about goals etc. each company and each industry does things differently. I'll tell you about my last position. I was given a salary, which was roughly a third of my overall earnings. 2/3rds of my earnings came from bonuses based on performance.

I had a goal to bring in $32million of new business to my company. -that's a big number.

I received a et amount for hitting my goal. I received a quarterly bonus check based in the amount I had sold towards that goal. So if I was 25% towards my goal after the first quarter, I would get 25% of the bonus.

Then, at the end of the year I would get basis points on everything I signed and increased basis points for the amount over goal.

I also received set spiffs for certain products I sold too. Some came with $100 signing bonus and a $500 bonus upon "activation."

If you are lazy or just not good at the job, it will not be terribly lucrative, though the base salary isn't terrible and you also get a company car, Internet, lap top, iPad etc. but if you don't perform, you'll get let go. There's no subjectivity in sales, you are either performing or you are not.

It's a profession that requires a bachelors degree to get to a certain level, but beyond that it just requires ability. The numbers don't lie. You can prove yourself, work your way in to a top industry selling software, med devices or financial products and earn $150 - $500k a year. It's pretty incredible.

My friend Brian once dated a girl who's father was an attorney and he said, I make more than her dad." -He did. He had a degree in graphic design and was selling med devices, earning $180k+ a year.

So, it's very much predicated on hitting a goal, but if you do, you can earn a TON of money and enjoy a lot of autonomy. I've worked from home for the past 10 Years.

Feel free to ask any questions you'd like though. I love asking the scientists etc on Hubski questions about their profession. It's time I gave back.

Edit: please excuse typos. I'm on my phone. Let me know what I didn't answer. I am responding from memory.

user-inactivated  ·  3162 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Do people not get annoyed when someone does that? "Yes, I just said that (and now I'm annoyed)" is what I think when I read the salesperson's response. As for mirroring, I just think "are you copying me?" suspicious squint. I do realize that you put disclaimers at the bottom for newbies about being genuine, but I'm curious as to how this actually works. Maybe I shouldn't own a business.

It's a dialog template. You're supposed to use your own personal speaking voice and mannerisms.

For example, my response to such a situation would be along the lines "Yeah, that's pretty rough. Setbacks are always a bit hard to swallow. So do you think if things turn around you can hit your goal sooner or is 2016 pretty much a hard date for you now?"

Not only does it allow you to sympathize and connect, but it allows your further opportunity to probe and offer solutions.