Am I reading you correctly in that you seem to be saying that because something is deemed an opinion, it both should not be found offensive and also somehow relevant? For instance, just because the following statement is deemed an opinion doesn't even address whether or not it logically follows or support the 'argument' being made here. While disrupting an organized political speech is, you know, I guess not a "polite" thing to do, it's hardly "whatever you want." I think we're lacking some context in what occurred before the beginning of this video. Without that it's hard to say that those women are even agitated "just" because they feel like "nobody's listening." Or fuck #blacklivesmatter is somehow not an offensive statement, just because it's not "namecalling"? It's okay to state an opinion that, while literally may not mean this, can easily seem like it means "fuck black lives?" It certainly means "fuck a movement that was founded on the idea that black lives are important." How is the following considered an opinion? Because if you unwind it you can interpret it as "If something is wrong you should use the democratic system like everyone else does?" First, claiming 'everyone else' uses the democratic system is an assertion, not an opinion. Second, I'd consider this statement, if anything, a suggested 'solution,' except a solution that clearly doesn't work. Please name one social issue that our democracy has "fixed." We're still arguing about abortion 50 years after Roe v. Wade, we're still not practicing equality for women and minority, not to mention persons of alternate gender persuations or preferences despite a shit-ton of legal acts passed in, like, the 60s. And for women like the 20s or some shit. Let's also discuss how someone would "use our democracy" in order to formally be allowed to provide commentary or discussion at a political event...Hmm...Right. I don't think that the speakers at such events are determined through those venues. The person holding the event has the ability to suppress the voices of anyone they want, because of course it's an event designed to support certain interests. Does that mean that that's fair or people shouldn't be butthurt? I get pissed when there are roadside preachers. Should I not get upset about things because legally, someone is allowed to do them? Silly. And: Man, it's like, those women were working pretty hard to be heard, too. But...it's okay because they were interrupting other people who were working hard first? I don't think you get to call dibs on the right to free speech or the right to make yourself be heard. Final question on the first portion of your breakdown (by the way, overall, I would discourage taking a paragraph of text and breaking it down line by line and determining if each line is "offensive" or not because I think a lot of context gets lost). Why are (adisdawhatever's) sentences only broken down in to fact/opinion? I mean, clearly some aren't. Or, you know, conversely, half of what you called "name-calling" in 8bit's responses could easily have been "opinion" using the logic applied to (aidsface - edit 2 - id like to say I'm still completely amused by "aidsface" and encourage the use of this, affection of course, nickname). If "fuck #blacklivesmatter" is an opinion than why isn't "how white are you?" I mean, it's just 8bit's opinion that he thinks the other guy is probably white, right? Like, it's just weird that the first response is apparently all only opinion or fact, especially when I can't even parse the logic, but...like....apparently none of 8bit's reply is either opinion or fact? Weird. ________________________________- OK so here's where you really fuck up though. So you're supposed to be like factually and independently breaking down these responses right? What's so demonizing about these stereotypes? Are they truly demonizing? I'm pretty sure that demonization requires that something be made out as a threat, as harmful, painful, you know, like, actually uh...demonic in some way. Gluten-free, wayfarers, and prius? If anything it might be a little emasculating. Or point out that white people care about stupid minor level things...because they have the ability to. The freedom to. Anyway, you wanna try to break something down factually, you kinda gotta leave your...what's that word? oh. "opinion" out of it. As for that little bit about "oh you predicted (aidsface's) response so that means your comments aren't valid, you didn't give him a CHANCE!" let me ask you something. As a woman who has found herself in really uncomfortable situations with men no small number of times, like, uh, how many douchebags am I supposed to just "get to know first" before it's okay for me to decide what "creepy vibes" are and turn men down without talking to them? How many men am I supposed to let close to me, how many times am I supposed to allow myself to go into what I consider threatening situations where the odds are in my favor, before it's okay for me to say "You know what, no, I'm not interested in having a drink with you, no I'm not interested in 'just hanging out' at your place, no, I don't want to give you a ride home" ? And how many times do you think 8bit's already had to do the same thing except with race conversations? I guess that's just not enough, though. I guess it's just his job to tirelessly and emotionlessly defend people who share a quality he also possesses, because every time he doesn't, some asshole is like "But you didn't give him a chaaaaance!" Let me tell you what I have been around the block with men and assholes are the ones who always complain about not getting a chance. The men that I date? I don't need to give them a chance to explain why their douchebaggery isn't really douchebaggery. They just aren't fucking douchebags. Yo, part of being the minority culture is that you are allowed to riff on your oppressors because it's one of the few outlets you have for the shit you're dealing with. White people get to not be stopped and frisked all the time in NYC. White people get to get into all sorts of colleges. White people get to not get pulled over by the cops for driving while black. Because of that, it's shitty when they capitalize on their superior position by, you know, driving home that they think everyone who isn't white isn't their equal. Meanwhile, minorities get fucked by our social systems and politics at every turn. So...now you're going to police them for using the written word to alleviate and express some of that too? I mean, like... Dick move. Dicktastic move, brah. I mean like, if I make a list of "excuses guys use to try to get me to go home with them" is that sexist and hateful vitriol? Or is it like uhhh a valid experience. If I make a list of "ways men tell me what to look like" is that sexist and hateful vitriol? I mean don't get me wrong. I'm angry. I'm hella fucking angry. But you know what? What I wish wasn't the case but it is? As a 5'3 140 pound girl I simply can't walk up to a strange man on the street who's just said something offensive or even hateful to me, stare him in the eye, and ask him to repeat. Why? Because that situation will escalate, and because much as I wish I could, I am not able to fight a man. And I am not able to fight a man when I do not know who or where his friends are, and I am a woman alone. (Hateful speech? One a man told me "You shouldn't be walking down the street alone at night, bitch." What is that? Oh, are you gonna tell me opinion? That was a fucking threat. He was not saying that to make me aware that I was unsafe walking down a fully lit, populated, busy-with-pedestrians, MAIN STREET of my little town at night.) The thing you fucked up is not that you disagreed, it's that you did a really shitty job of justifying it.This sense that it's fine to just do whatever you want because you feel like nobody's listening to you is completely unjustified and associating with it is bullshit. - aidrocsid
Something's wrong? Use our fucking democracy like everybody else. - aidrocsid
Silencing other people who're working hard to be heard themselves is not fucking acceptable. - aidrocsid
on a scale from "gluten-free is my necessity" to "I left my ray-band wayfarers in my prius" - 8bit
in order to demonize aidrocsid. - YOU, BRO
If a white person said the same thing about any other color of person, it'd be labelled as racist and hateful vitriol.
I'd just like to express here that the fact that eightbitsamurai is black apparently and I'm white does not make me "his oppressor". Is he queer? Is he physically able? Does he have mental illness? Is he gender conforming? Has he been homeless? Has he been physically abused? Do I get to cast him as "my oppressor" if he's neutrotypical? If he's able bodied? If acts and dresses in a masculine manner or fucks women? Does it matter that at the height of racism in the United States half my ancestors wouldn't even be considered white? What I disagree with is this sentiment that only race matters and race trumps logic. It's racist nonsense. In terms of the black lives matters protests specifically, what I disagree with is human walls blocking entry to schools, road blocks preventing people from getting where they need to go, and people hijacking political events. Especially, for that matter, when it's an event that's going to help their cause. Bernie Sanders wants to tax the rich and help the poor. You know who that will help disproportionately? Black people. He wants decriminalization of drugs. You know who that helps disproportionately? Black people. Hilary Clinton isn't going to swoop in and make massive economic changes, she's center-right. She's the safe candidate. Why don't they fuck with Hilary Clinton, who has said publicly that line they hate so much, "all lives matter" and who has no ambition of resource distribution? Why scream at the underdog who might actually do something good? It's not as if these rallies don't matter to the election. My problem with black lives matter isn't that it's trying to improve the lives of black people and draw attention to the ways in which our society demonizes black people and oppresses them. I absolutely, 100%, believe that black people are oppressed in the United States. That's not an excuse for hamfisted racist blundering in place of actual intelligent action. I didn't like OWS either. That doesn't make me a conservative or a racist, it makes me someone who won't automatically lick your boots just because you've taken up a position or two I agree with.
Post-Closure Bonus Round:
Hey, if you want to not bother to read past the first sentence and find out why I'm saying what I'm saying, that's your own decision. If you want to make me a straw racist then go ahead and build an effigy in my image, I don't really care. If someone can't be bothered to read what I have to say why on Earth would I care what they think of the little snippets that piss them off? Well Planned Parenthood is different. I've raised thousands of dollars for them and I think they're a great organization. I've never heard of them doing anything I've disapproved of. The black lives matters protestors seem to be totally fine with the three things I keep coming back to. Blocking access to educational facilities, obstructing major roadways, and disrupting the political rallies of underdogs who are more on their side than the party's frontrunner. I don't see any subsection of black lives matter condemning that. What I see is people getting real pissed off when anyone says all lives matter. Just because I say fuck Scientology doesn't mean I'm working for Xenu. I could honestly give a fuck less. If you want to be intellectually lazy and paint with broad strokes go for it. It's your world view. I'm fine.
Ahaha, yes. Because intersectionality when invoked by a male is #notallmen. I'm done biting too. I don't play with sexists.
Well that's lovely for you. Personally, 8bit has been only rude to me so, again, not really concerned.I didn't like OWS either, that doesn't mean it's not way way so easy to see how that statement was pretty offensive. I don't care why you don't like the political movement. I'm saying what you said was offensive, incendiary, and can easily be read as "fuck black lives" and not just "fuck the movement."
If someone says "fuck Planned Parenthood," I'm not going to be like "Oh this person is a feminist, they just don't like that PP is gov't funded!" or some shit. I'm going to be like, "PP empowered me personally and thousands of woman across the country every day, fuck you."
Oh I'm sorry. Is what you are saying that there was nuance in your opinion? And you are upset that people didn't see that when you didn't express it? You are upset that all these complicated, more fair, and more reasonable opinions you have put out now, did not come across when you said "fuck a thing?"
You can #notallmen all the fuck over this thread, I'm done biting too.
I have done my standing up in this thread because it is what I do: I stand up when I think it's necessary. I knew this day was gonna come and I believe that 8bit deserves, at least, my backing, support, and sympathy.
I didn't like OWS either, that doesn't mean it's not way way so easy to see how that statement was pretty offensive. I don't care why you don't like the political movement. I'm saying what you said was offensive, incendiary, and can easily be read as "fuck black lives" and not just "fuck the movement." If someone says "fuck Planned Parenthood," I'm not going to be like "Oh this person is a feminist, they just don't like that PP is gov't funded!" or some shit. I'm going to be like, "PP empowered me personally and thousands of woman across the country every day, fuck you." Oh I'm sorry. Is what you are saying that there was nuance in your opinion? And you are upset that people didn't see that when you didn't express it? You are upset that all these complicated, more fair, and more reasonable opinions you have put out now, did not come across when you said "fuck a thing?" Gorsh. I'm so surprised by that. You can #notallmen all the fuck over this thread, I'm done biting too. I have done my standing up in this thread because it is what I do: I stand up when I think it's necessary. I knew this day was gonna come and I believe that 8bit deserves, at least, my backing, support, and sympathy. Edit: I have figured out how to get around the nuclear-ban(kind of). But in general I accept that I don't want to talk to those who don't want to talk to me. Also if your point is "well that organization is different, because I support that organization," you're kind of deliberately missing the point. If you can't be arsed to express nuance in your first jerk off comment a) stay on reddit b) don't be surprise when people identify your lack of effort as the crusty semen it is. I reiterate: in no way at any point did I try to say you were racist. I said, if you say a shitty thing, people are going to think you are shitty. This is even easier if you say a shitty thing that is easily misinterpreted to mean an even shittier thing and you don't bother to, like, idk, elaborate and reveal that you aren't that shitty. Saying fuck blacklivesmatter is incendiary. That is and has always been my point. I have never said you are racist because of it and have repeatedly pointed out that like 25% of the problem with that phrase is how easy it is to misinterpret and think means more than what I believe you do. But honey? Fuckin 90% of the problem is your attitude.
If you come across as douchey the solution isn't to say it's everyone else's problem. If you are an adult you should be able to acknowledge how you contribute to the conflicts you find yourself in. mk idk how you feel about this but via edits and "see parent" and so on I can hijack the nuke ban and frankly I am smart and self confident enough to accept the rejection of those who reject me, so you might want to look at what can be done to disallow that. Pax folks! I got so much bigger fish to fry P.s. Everybody I hope you have real fun responding to someone who probs can't even read what you say let alone respond to it. Don't worry, I understand. You have a hard on for feeling right and it's real easy to jack off when the person you want to say is wrong can't respond to tell you no. Somehow you will convince yourself that it's worthwhile to respond anyway, you know, for the audience. That's okay I get it. We are all ugly humans. But how much does the last word matter if you are arguing with a gagged man? Go ahead and fight someone who's tied up - I understand. When you can't win a fair fight of course you should find one that's slanted in your favor instead. Well, I mean... Right?