Actually, that's not bacon, it's a pigs head.
Bacon typically comes from the pigs belly. See below:
This post is just an image. It is up to us to interpret it. thenewgreen, which of the following two interpretations do you think organicAnt most likely intended?
1. This is the part of a pig’s body that is used to make bacon.
2. When meat dishes are served on a plate, an ugly and cruel reality is kept out of sight.
Are you annoyed at this childish, antagonistic post, that you answer it in a childish, antagonistic way? Did you hope to learn anything from your comment? Do you think anyone else learned anything from it? (For those genuinely curious about where bacon comes from, there are more informative sources than infographics [warning: link contains graphic images of bloody flesh].)
Perhaps the classical quote in organicAnt’s previous post is more your style. Or else the artistic, provocative, and inspiring documentary in the following post.
Did you intend anything by your comment other than to poke someone with a stick, to see how loud they would squeal? If so, I reckon you got what you came for.
Remember when we gave organicAnt a hard time for posting stupid, unwanted images in other peoples’ posts? Hubski, alas, does not have good tools for dealing with such unwelcome comments. Fortunately, organicAnt respected the conventions of the forum and has been commenting exclusively on organicAnt’s own posts, for weeks (except when invited by name).
organicAnt is not shitting on your bratwurst. Why are you shitting on organicAnt’s attempt to promote compassion? Don’t like the tone? I don’t like it either. As has been said repeatedly, we are all free to ignore these posts. Don’t follow #animalrights. Don’t follow #shitpost either, as some courageous critic has taken to tagging organicAnt’s contributions.
Want to make organicAnt shut up? Want to end the passive-aggressive, sarcastic comments? Want organicAnt to “fuck off, hard”? Here is a simple way which, as far as I can tell, no one has tried:
Provide a moral counterargument.
Tell us about your holy book which gives man dominion over women and animals. Dig up a quote from Descartes showing that animals are merely machines. Tell us you are a nihilist and you don’t care. Provide evidence that animals are incapable of suffering.
Don’t believe that organicAnt will listen to reason? I provided a calm, evidence-based argument that humans are not the only creatures that kill billions of other animals for sport. That seemed to settle it.
TNG, you tried to have a civil discussion, and it wasn’t a total loss. But it was largely an effort to avoid the question. You cornered organicAnt and the closest we got to an honest exchange was:
- organicAnt: Animals are sentient, capable of suffering just like you.
- TNG: I won’t openly disagree with that exact sentence, and I don’t think many others would. But can I bait you into condemning a boutique farm that raises 30 chickens under better conditions than the 9 billion other chickens annually raised for food?
organicAnt took the bait, just like with the bacon diagram, and the discussion was successfully derailed.
- which of the following two interpretations do you think organicAnt most likely intended?
3. This will be shocking enough to grab people's attention.
As for your other questions, which all essentially dance around a single question, "what was your intention?" It was thus:
There is a real debate worth having here and it's worth having accurately. Without hyperbole. That was my intention.
Coincidently, I've spent the day having fantastic discussions with people about the definitions of suffering and sentience. Those discussions didn't start with a photo of a severed pigs head to discuss bacon. They started with adult conversations about death, food, animal rights and our options as consumers at the top of our food chain.
My post of the infographic didnt "shit" on anything. It was factual. Period. It lead to a dialog between cgod and OA that nearly earned badges for each from me. Had I not made that comment, this would be the pigs head post that did nothing to spur any conversation about animal rights but just seemed, well.... Dumb. I don't think that animal rights are dumb. That post was though and I did what I could to correct that.
I will say this, I'm on a rare vacation, but I didn't want you to think I was avoiding your comment. Forgive me if I didn't reply to all your points. I didn't follow the links either. No time. Sorry. I shall attempt to revisit when back home.
That's the kind of friendly childish drawing that helps us to abstract from reality. Here's a taste of what it actually looks like.
- Never really minded you trying to influence people away from meat but now you are just spamming.
Thank you for your blessing thus far. You do know there's a good solution to avoid a subject that makes you uncomfortable - avoid it or block me. No one is forcing you to look at my posts, much less reply.
And yes, calling to stop murder and discrimination is exactly the same as setting on a murdering holy war. Sharp logic you got there.
I don't mind if you don't know what jihad is but since it seems that you are saying you've decided spamming is the way to go I'll block you.
I'd recommend that you take a few rhetoric classes and learn how to construct convincing arguments instead of alienating your audience.
You are the first person I've even blocked that wasn't just a commercial spammer. I don't mind your content but I don't want repetitive multi-post spam.
Just because my posts are on the same topic, it doesn't make them spam. I haven't posted any repeated posts. That would be the definition of spam.
It is disgusting, that you'd go as low as comparing a form of activism which calls for stopping unnecessary cruelty with a violent type of war, which is what jihadists are known for.
You say you don't mind my content but I very much doubt that is true. You're obviously not prepared to analyse your way of living. You are bothered by it because its forcing you to look at what you try so hard to ignore. It's ironic that you find a picture of what you eat, threatening to your way of living. I don't blame you honestly, it takes a lot of guts to stop and actually question if the way you've been living al your life is morally justifiable. And here's your convincing argument, only cowards consciously choose to keep ignoring the consequences of their own actions, particularly if said actions involve preying on the weakest UNNECESSARILY.
And for the 100th time, if you aren't vegan and you're trying to tell me how best to get the message across - then just tell me what to say to you, and I'll say it back, and then you'll go vegan right? Yeah, I didn't think so.
Every post I post is an argument for animal rights, if you don't like them it's your own problem. And for that, this is for you.
- It is disgusting, that you'd go as low as comparing a form of activism which calls for stopping unnecessary cruelty with a violent type of war, which is what jihadists are known for.
Most Muslims don't view jihad as a violent thing. Jihad is a struggle or resistance to support a good cause. There are guys waging jihad against litter. Seems like a pretty reasonable thing to say about your position, you are struggling against something you see as unjust or evil with a blind religious fervor that pushes you to alienate reasonable people like me who have found some of your content thoughtful.
- You're obviously not prepared to analyse your way of living. You are bothered by it because its forcing you to look at what you try so hard to ignore. It's ironic that you find a picture of what you eat, threatening to your way of living.
You seem to know a lot about me. I don't know what picture I found threatening but I do know what an info graphic is and I know that a hog's head isn't bacon. Takes me back to your need to take a basic rhetoric class. You want to persuade people that they shouldn't eat meat so you post a bloody hogs head and call it bacon. To someone who isn't on board with your crusade that's just dumb, it's not bacon, it's a hog's head. So someone showed you where bacon was and you got snitty. Snitty doesn't persuade either, you belittled their picture of where the parts of the hog are. I got annoyed at your belittling, I know what an info graphic is and I know what it's function is, it isn't there to be cute, it's there to be informative. So I called your nonsense out. It's really outside the debate on animal ethics, it really comes down to credibility, that which you shed when abandon careful use of ethos, pathos and logos in favor of hysterical snittyness.
- And for the 100th time, if you aren't vegan and you're trying to tell me how best to get the message across - then just tell me what to say to you, and I'll say it back, and then you'll go vegan right? Yeah, I didn't think so.
I'm not here to tell you what to say but to maybe to clue you in to a better way of saying it. Cicero was the fourth most powerful man in the greatest age of Rome and all he had was his pen and his tongue. If you want to persuade people take some rhetoric classes, otherwise it looks like you just want to be an angry spamming jerk. I suppose you could take marketing classes but marketing and marketers are the devil and it's not a way I'd chose to go. I really don't care if I persuade you to learn how to get people to listen to you, you're a hysterical spammer so filled with religious zeal that I would prefer you just went away.
- you are struggling against something you see as unjust or evil with a blind religious fervor that pushes you to alienate reasonable people like me
How humble of you to think of yourself as reasonable. I wonder who doesn't. In your mental contortion to attack me and ignore the subject you've overlooked a pretty important detail in your comparison -- religion is based on belief while veganism is based on facts. You accuse me of "blind religious fervour" but you're the one who follows the religion of carnism because you were indoctrinated into it while I consciously chose against it after being presented with facts.
Did it even cross your mind why would someone be prepared to stand up and take the avalanche of shit thrown at them by people like you? Did you wonder if they would do that if they didn't feel so strongly compelled that they are doing something so crucially important for humanity and the planet as a whole that it is worth the social suicide that comes with it and even necessary to ruffle some feathers sometimes? I don't know, it's just an idea.
- You seem to know a lot about me.
I know what it is like to be a meat eater. I was one. I know that it's not pleasant to have your beliefs challenged. But now I also know that it's necessary as time is not on our side.
- I don't know what picture I found threatening but I do know what an info graphic is and I know that a hog's head isn't bacon. [...] I know what an info graphic is and I know what it's function is, it isn't there to be cute, it's there to be informative.
Don't pretend to be a fool, you're too smart for that. You know too well that a bloody decapitated pig's head is the consequence of your bacon. And that the graphic wasn't posted to inform anyone about where bacon comes from but as a condescending joke and provocation. It was a hilarious joke in fact because you see, killing someone for no other reason than selfish pleasure is funny. In fact, particularly psychopaths find that fucking hilarious.
- So I called your nonsense out. It's really outside the debate on animal ethics, it really comes down to credibility, that which you shed when abandon careful use of ethos, pathos and logos in favor of hysterical snittyness.
Yes, absolutely, well done and congratulations for defending murder and using all of that precious brain power to distract yourself hatting me, while you could be educating yourself on how to live healthier while reducing pollution and resource use and eliminating unnecessary cruelty. If I'm the dumb one and I have figured this out, imagine what a smart guy/gal like you could do with it.
- I'm not here to tell you what to say but to maybe to clue you in to a better way of saying it.
Oh I see, that's completely different. So all you want is me to learn how to educate you. Aaah, now I get it, you're just being a nice friend kindly guiding me in the right direction. Boy am I lucky to have a friend like you. Service announcement, I am NOT your pet to tame.
- I really don't care if I persuade you to learn how to get people to listen to you, you're a hysterical spammer so filled with religious zeal that I would prefer you just went away.
Know that the inconvenience my shitty posts cause to your comfortable daily life, cannot be compared to the short lives of caged enslavement and pain you contribute to by consciously choosing to eat and wear beings that did nothing to you. Don't listen to me, use a bit of critical thinking, do some research and free yourself from the supremacist status quo that is killing billions and squandering resources while damaging our precious environment and your own health.
You can close your eyes and shut your ears and you may stop hearing from me, but you won't stop the wave that is coming. Ignorance in disguise of tradition and culture has ruled too long. The same energy that fought slavery, that fought for women's rights and blacks rights is now fighting against mindless and selfish cruelty. Vegans will not stop fighting for what's right. And deep down you know what is right. I hope one day you have the courage to act on it. Love you.
btw, I'll keep up this "discussion" as long as you like, It's what your really out for after all. If you like I can dial it up or down depending on how much bile you feel like getting out.
Seems positively insane, as all I really cared about was you spamming a shit ton of post out and then getting snitty over the fact that it was pointed out that one in particular was dumb and not going to change anyone's mind.
But I can tell, you got some venom to let out, you need some shit to mutter into your pillow at night, so if it gets you hard keep it coming.
You act like you want to convince people to not eat meat but you go about it in a way that makes you a spamy dick, which is no way to convince people. The evidence shows that you just like wallowing in your self rightness and have no interest in converting people to veganism. I think you just enjoy raging against the injustice and have no interest making real change in the world.
Enjoy your anger. I never once argued against veganism against you and you might be right about some of it. It's something I've thought about whilst I've reduced the amount of meat I eat. I only object to your methods, which are crass and counter your actual goals. Have fun thinking about what a great person you are compared to all us meat eaters as you alienate your self from society and insure that you have no real effect on the issue that you hold so dear.
You like funny jokes? How do you know when there is a vegan in the room? Don't worry, they'll let you know.