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comment by thundara
thundara  ·  4398 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Buying upvotes with cash on Reddit
Submitting content is controlled for by the hubski culture of following users, but how are upvotes controlled for? What's to stop me and a few cronies from signing up for a couple accounts and proxies and using that to fill the wheel on posts, not by us, but relevant to our monetary interests?

If I ignore thenewgreen, should hubski reverse all his votes on pages that I see?





thenewgreen  ·  4398 days ago  ·  link  ·  
    If I ignore thenewgreen, should hubski reverse all his votes on pages that I see?
interesting idea, the question you raise is one that I think about often. Right now it hasn't been a problem but when Hubski grows and the riff raft get's in, it will be something we have to deal with. I have a feeling that we (users) would know if something was inexplicably popular.

Have you tried the new Caramel Coca-Cola? is not likely a comment that would receive a positive response on Hubski. Nor is "great". We also have the "spam" button that can be used. But that doesn't totally account for your concern.

A post can get all the "shares" in the world from someone getting payed .08 cents per "share" but if nobody follows that person, that's a waste of money. A post can have a full hub wheel from 20 dummy accounts and still, the only people that will see it will be the 20 dummies.

Comments though, that's a valid concern that needs some thought.

khaaan  ·  4397 days ago  ·  link  ·  
real Id's or some kind of levelling system so new users cant just come in and wreak havoc
scarp  ·  4398 days ago  ·  link  ·  
    A post can get all the "shares" in the world from someone getting payed .08 cents per "share" but if nobody follows that person, that's a waste of money. A post can have a full hub wheel from 20 dummy accounts and still, the only people that will see it will be the 20 dummies.

I think you mostly nailed it. The way hubski is designed makes it difficult to for spammers to gain quick and easy popularity since they must gain not only share but also non-bought followers -- the latter of which is a slow and more deeply involved process than simply clicking a button. People being paid 8ยข an hour (or per follower, or whatever) won't bother with that.

However, a poster that no one follows can still be visible through the "external posts" feature, which I personally keep on "show many." And while it is possible to ignore users on an individual level, the post will still be visible by anyone not blocking that particular user -- which, when you account for lurkers and new folk, is probably the majority of people who see the site (if not now, then in the future). I think it is at that point, or ideally before that point, that we will start to seriously discuss the issue of moderation.

thenewgreen  ·  4398 days ago  ·  link  ·  
As of right now the lurk page is basically a "trending" page so I guess it would be possible to get a bogus submission with some bogus comments to end up there. I suppose mk could make it to where a post doesn't make the "lurk" page unless it has comments from an established hubskier. That could be one way to eliminate any BS posts from being seen by our Hubski "guests". We wouldn't want any newcomers to get the wrong impression.

As for the external posts getting hit with BS posts, I think lessismore is right, just "ignore" someone and they will no longer show up.

The only thing I see as a potential problem for the future are people commenting. How to ignore a user that comments on everything but has nothing to say or someone that is annoying or a blatant troll? How to avoid that is the question. Can you block someone from posting a comment on anything you post? Maybe if you ignore that user, they can't comment on your posts? This is a problem to be solved.

thundara  ·  4398 days ago  ·  link  ·  
Keep in mind there's a fine line between keeping out spammers and keeping out newcomers. Don't want to turn hubski into digg with only the power users able to gain and hold traction on the site. I do like mk's idea of giving priority to users with fewer ignores though.
mk  ·  4397 days ago  ·  link  ·  
Yes, I am leery of building a site that revolves around a small group of influential users. In fact, you might have noticed that I removed 'popular hubs' from the discover page yesterday. I replaced it with 'recently badged'. I am still doing work there, but I don't want to artificially cluster newcomers around certain users just because they were here first.

I'd rather visibility to the community as a whole to be a transient thing, dependent upon the quality of your most recent posts and comments, and not upon a legacy. Of course, a user will keep most of the followers they have earned, but if they want to get more of them, they have to keep providing good reason for it.

thundara  ·  4397 days ago  ·  link  ·  
Thank you for that, it's a good policy to have
thenewgreen  ·  4398 days ago  ·  link  ·  
I like mk's idea too, they're still there they are just not being featured as prominently because the community has basically all but told mk that this person is posting for nefarious reasons.
mk  ·  4397 days ago  ·  link  ·  
I really don't want to get into active moderation like blocking users from your posts. It's one thing to alter what you see, but IMO it's entirely another thing to alter what other people see. As thundara suggests, I don't want to get into a situation where power users are dominating the site.

I am all for enabling a user to filter their own experience, however. So if you are ignoring someone, it would make sense that their comments would drop closer to the bottom in your view of a post.

As for general moderation, if and when we get into that, I'd like it to be as dependent upon user input as possible. Ignoring does give a pretty good metric for that, at least to raise a flag that there might be an issue.

thenewgreen  ·  4397 days ago  ·  link  ·  
I guess I should define established, I would say it's someone that has had a full hub wheel at least once. Not exactly a "power user" scenario. That said, I think the system in place is a good one for posts but it doesn't do anything to prevent someone from trolling every mk post with comments. What If I went to every post you made and commented rudely but not so offensively that it barred me from the site? This could effectively ruin your hubski experience. What, if anything, can Hubski do to prevent this?
mk  ·  4397 days ago  ·  link  ·  
If someone were willing to make that effort, I'd almost be flattered. :)

I'd ignore them, so their comment would sort to the bottom, and if others ignored them, the same would happen. My guess is that they would run out of steam eventually. If we don't take the good with the bad, then we are left to determine which is which.

If it became real problem, I'd probably consider some other approaches, but I don't think civility can be enforced very well.

thenewgreen  ·  4397 days ago  ·  link  ·  
Thanks, I hadn't realized that if you ignore someone their comment falls to the bottom of your feed. That's great, I think it would essentially solve the problem. Like you said, they would run out of steam, so long as people aren't responding to them and rewarding their idiocy. This can happen when you get more than one on a feed.

You're right about civility, it can't be enforced.

mk  ·  4397 days ago  ·  link  ·  
    Thanks, I hadn't realized that if you ignore someone their comment falls to the bottom of your feed.

Oh, not yet! thundara suggested it, and I think it's a great idea.

thenewgreen  ·  4397 days ago  ·  link  ·  
It is. Nice work thundara
mk  ·  4398 days ago  ·  link  ·  
    If I ignore thenewgreen, should hubski reverse all his votes on pages that I see?

That is an interesting idea. Ignoring might be part of an approach to help sort comments.

As for spammers showing up in the external posts and the lurking page, we do have a count of how many people are ignoring a specific account. If we take that, and likely match it with some other data (such as followers comments on their posts, etc.), we could have some useful information to work with if it became an issue. I don't like to ban if at all possible. But if lots of people ignore a user's content, their posts might pass through external feeds at a higher rate.

lessismore  ·  4398 days ago  ·  link  ·  
It wouldn't matter if the submissions have full wheels. Only those who subscribe to the submitter and sharers will see the post. Unless the poster/sharers have a significant subscriber base, not too many eyes will fall on the article. So if anyone is thinking about monetizing their hubski activities, they must first start by building a huge subscriber base. In order to do that, he/she must contribute quality content. If he/she starts shilling out just for monetary compensation without care for content, subscriber base in theory will go down which makes his shilling less marketable and be worth less to the buyer.
thundara  ·  4398 days ago  ·  link  ·  
That's assuming people only follow users. At the moment, I personally still pay a fair amount of attention to high-rated articles in the tags I follow. Can't speak for other people, though.
lessismore  ·  4398 days ago  ·  link  ·  
Same difference. When you click on a tag, you can easily see the original submitter. If someone is spamming, it will not take long for the person to be ignored and the username will be highlighted as so.