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comment by kleinbl00
kleinbl00  ·  3335 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: When progressives satirize themselves by accident

This is why the whole fucking ecosystem pisses me off.

GROUP A: "Hey let's do something awesome and multicultural!"

PERSON B: "You are offending my culture."

GROUP A: "But we don't mean offense!"

PERSON B: "But you are being offensive."

GREEK CHORUS: "because he is offended they are offensive"

And you know what? It's one thing if I don't know you and you don't know me and it should be pretty f'n obvious that Black Pete is not going to be charming to anyone African American.

But you know what you never.fucking.see?

GROUP A: "We are being multicultural!"

MEMBER OF GROUP A: "You are being offensive. Stop it."

REST OF GROUP A: "We do not mean to be offensive!"

MEMBER OF GROUP A: "Seeing as I have more of a stake in this culture than you, and a strong affinity for you all, the following ways are options to celebrate my culture without being offensive."

ALL OF GROUP A: "We are multicultural and inoffensive!"

Know why it doesn't happen?

Because fuck multiculturalism.

If you are a minority, and there's something that's yours, fuck everybody that isn't a minority that uses it. If you are a minority, and there's something that's yours, nobody else better so much as talk about it. Haft shin, not haft sin.

So here's the real undercurrent:

GROUP A: "Hey let's do something awesome and multicultural!"

EVERYONE THAT ISN'T IN GROUP A: "Fuck you, that's my culture, don't so much as fucking talk about it, eat shit."

GROUP A: "Why are you so bent out of shape that we're trying to understand your culture?"

EVERYONE THAT ISN'T IN GROUP A: "Because everything in the world belongs to you, this is the only thing in the world that belongs to me."

GROUP A: "Never fucking mind then, your kids will forget your language, your stories and your customs and since you're lashing out at us for trying to be nice we won't even feel bad about it."

EVERYONE THAT ISN'T IN GROUP A: "And that's why we hate you."

GROUP A: "And that's why we invade, rather than colonize."

Yay melting pot.





thundara  ·  3334 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I've got no beef with taking elements from another's culture if it's done with respect and a decent understanding its meaning. The exceptions to that are religious and sacred symbols. It's not the taking that's the offensive part, it's the use of names, foods, and imagery, in a way that bastardizes the original idea that is the offensive part.

If I follow a recipe for ghormeh sabzi as part of a dinner on world dishes, that's multicultural and my guests may gain at least a slight appreciation for a food from the Middle East. Maybe in the process they can listen to music from the region or learn about its holidays or history. If I dress up as a Muslim cleric and go around handing out jello shots, my guests have none the more understanding of Islam or the Middle East.

kleinbl00  ·  3334 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You're arguing it's a matter of degree. To some extent I agree with you. To a greater extent it's about possession.

Persians are allowed to argue about the authenticity of Persian restaurants in Los Angeles. They are allowed to support or slag as they see fit. As a white guy, I'm not entitled to an opinion. Buddy of mine isn't either - because only his mom is Persian.

That's my whole point: maybe you got no beef with appropriating cultural elements with respect, but somebody does, and they will be vocal, and they will accuse you of oppression for the simple reason that you're appropriating. Simply put: you are allowed to assist your friends in appreciation only of those elements you are entitled to by birth (not even by blood).

thundara  ·  3334 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yeah, unfortunately there is no handbook to culture that anyone can point to and say they are abiding by.

I would argue there is zero wrong with enjoying or criticizing a restaurant because it's a restaurant and public criticism or acclaim comes with the business. I can also say a Japanese restaurant might be overpriced or a Mexican place salts their food too much for my liking. Or even that I prefer to avoid all Chinese food because it sits heavy in my stomach. All okay because it's all relative to me: "I don't like this", rather than absolute: "This is bad and a poor representation of True X Food."

Then there's the grey area where a white person who has never been to Iran opening up a Kabob joint because they love the food and it's good business. As an also-half-persian, I have no problem with this, but would probably say the politically correct thing to do would be to call it "Kabobs" and not "Persian cuisine". In the former case, you are saying: "I am making this food" rather than "I am representing this culture".

Annoyingly, this is a subject where the stakes are unbalanced and if you're right, it's no harm done, and if you're wrong, you're a grade-A asshole. I have the feeling social liberalism and political correctness will eventually settle on a consistent set of rules. But for now, yeah, degrees, possession, and respect.

kleinbl00  ·  3334 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think it will always be "I reserve my right to be offended by any attempt you make to reference my culture for the simple reason that it's mine, not yours." And that's why the whole fucking thing bugs me. It really comes down to this: Do you want to be pissed off at me? Well guess what. You're going to find an excuse. Do you not want to be pissed off at me? Well guess what. There are ample reasons to excuse my behavior.

But what it really comes down to? The argument that you are somehow justified in shitting on me for multiculturalism because something something birthright. And there's nothing clever about it, there's nothing avoidable about it, and anybody who has 50.0001% of something is gonna get shit on by the guy with 49.9999% of something because that's how we, as humans, do it.