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comment by mk
mk  ·  3675 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Theopolitics in Amurica

    I said that the answer lies with a new left because the radical left has historically always dreamed of the dissolution of state power and a move towards a cooperative international community directed by "the people" (which in the 21st century could be a type of distributed governance).

I can see that. However, I think it can be argued that the mantle has been largely assumed by the libertarians. I do not see communism as aligned with decentralization, although there are overlaps. Whereas communism charges the governance structure with the task of public good, libertarians tend to argue that the public good ought to be a byproduct of a system. There is a lot of shared ground, yet I think libertarians are more closely aligned with what technology is making possible, at least in the short term. But, really, what I am arguing, is that we needn't look to the left or to the right. Because they are reflections of a system that is becoming unstable. IMHO we are seeing left/right political dissonance because those views don't reflect the possibilities of a new framework.





theadvancedapes  ·  3675 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    But, really, what I am arguing, is that we needn't look to the left or to the right. Because they are reflections of a system that is becoming unstable. IMHO we are seeing left/right political dissonance because those views don't reflect the possibilities of a new framework.

I can agree with that. My call for the "new left" was mostly because, in my lifetime, the only time I have seen the foundations of society really challenged was with the Occupy Wall Street movement. The Occupy movement can be rejuvenated, the structure is basically still there, and they are attacking precisely what needs to be changed. Also, they have international appeal as it spread to over 90 countries.

kleinbl00  ·  3675 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    The only time I have seen the foundations of society really challenged was with the Occupy Wall Street movement.

OWS failed because they railed about problems without presenting a cohesive solution. The Arab Spring wanted an overthrow of dictators; OWS, depending on who you asked, either wanted a higher marginal tax rate, stricter inter-bank lending laws or something-something-welfare.

There shall be no protestant movement until OWS can present its 99 theses in a concise manner.

mk  ·  3675 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think, by their nature the leftists look more populous, but a large portion of the tools and communities that are enabling the growth of State-independent culture have been generated by folk that probably identify more with libertarians or perhaps see themselves as neoliberals.

user-inactivated  ·  3675 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yes; I've read every post in this thread and the insistence that it's the "radical left" that will overthrow/rebuild the state is confusing me a bit. If anything the members of the radical left as it existed 40-60 years ago have migrated to left-libertarianism (which may be the term you're searching for, because it's where the so-called neoliberals might intersect with classical liberalism).

Nowadays, I associate the phrase radical left with extreme socialism. The furthest left political parties in the world are all in essentially socialist countries.

b_b  ·  3675 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Nowadays, I associate the phrase radical left with extreme socialism.

When was there ever a time when the radical left wasn't comprised of socialist and communists? They invented the radical left in the 19th c.

user-inactivated  ·  3675 days ago  ·  link  ·  

An argument could be made for 1964-1968. Not that those student movements ever had cohesive, unhypocritical agendas, but...

theadvancedapes  ·  3675 days ago  ·  link  ·  

To be honest, that is a development that I am completely unaware of, although I should read up on it. But it's clear that the state is getting pulled apart from many different movements. Although it is not clear yet how it will happen, I think it is now safe to say that the liberal democracy as manifest in the nation-state does not represent any type of an "end of history".

kleinbl00  ·  3675 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Fukiyama was resoundingly discredited by the Serbian conflict and the ensuing 20 years of history.