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comment by thenewgreen
thenewgreen  ·  3485 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Watch me commit Hubski social suicide

I watched this video yesterday when you posted it. It's much more compelling within this context that you've given. I wanted to shout out to sounds_sound, one of our resident architects and ask what he thinks regarding whether or not explosives were used? I'm not sure how much they teach you in architecture school about how to destroy buildings with military grade composites?

I'll admit, I'm one of those people that knew little to nothing about building #7 prior to this interview.

I'm glad you posted it.





b_b  ·  3485 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Remember the Hudson's building demolition? That was the largest controlled implosion in history. And it took an entire team of people working for a full time week to lay enough explosive to bring the thing down. This building makes Hudson's look like a play house. Where were all these people hiding? "Don't mind me. I'm just the maintenance man laying C4 around these structural beams. Nothing to see here, folks." Forget about all the other crazy, batshit scenarios that would have to line up to make 9/11 a government conspiracy (as opposed to an actual terrorist conspiracy, a fact conveniently ignored by conspiracy theorists who, for whatever reason, want the US government to be responsible), and just focus on the fact that it's literally impossible to blow up a building of this magnitude clandestinely.

Here's the thing. An unexpected event happens. The government investigates the event to find out the cause. They release their findings. A group of experts (or, maybe "experts") says, "Hmmm, the government's explanation is insufficient to explain the facts we know to be true." Here's how you get taken seriously: You offer an alternate explanation that's MORE PLAUSIBLE, not one that is literally and utterly out of the realm of what is possible in the universe. Newton's theory didn't quite explain planetary phenomena. If Einstein's relativeity would've taken us back to the days of Greek epicycles, do you think we'd be celebrating him as a hero? I doubt it.

I feel shame for even commenting here.

organicAnt  ·  3485 days ago  ·  link  ·  

b_b you're jumping to the conclusion of how much effort it would take to wire a building up instead of looking at the evidence. Of course the conclusions sound ludicrous but look and listen before judging. Did you watch the video?

bloggulator  ·  3483 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  

b_b: If this was a 'bona fide' (!) terrorist attack as claimed by the US authorities, then how did the alleged plotters gain access to so much privileged and classified information, the knowledge of which allowed the attacks to succeed? How did the alleged hijackers even board the four planes, given that there is no evidence of such (ticket purchases, credit card records, boarding passes, video with a certified chain of custody showing them board the planes etc.)? Why did they fly indirect routes to their assigned targets when they must have known that the USAF has an unblemished record for promptly scrambling F-15s and F-16s, capable of Mach II and faster, and challenging any problematic or off course airplane within a few minutes - and there are dozens of air bases within a very short flying distance of the hijacked planes' flight paths.

Your claim that skeptics regard "the US Government" as responsible is disingenuous at best. The US Government consists of many 10s of thousands of federal employees in hundreds of diverse agencies and departments that range from the USPS to NASA , or from the USGS to NSA. Yeah, it took that many incompetent government employees to organize 9/11 on one side, yet on the other story, it only took 19 young rookies with no paramilitary experience and little flying ability, a handful of organizers and a guy in a cave in Afghanistan pull the whole operation? That these kids, with no motivation and in total stealth, somehow ran rings around the entire, $multitrillion US military-defense-security-law enforcement-intelligence apparatus, in their own front yard, for nearly two whole hours, without a response from the world's most professional and highly trained air force?

It makes one wonder why the most senior officials in the Bush Administration did their damnedest to avoid any form of independent investigation into the attacks, especially VP Cheney, who used threatening language against Sen. Tom Daschle when the latter brought up the subject of "inquiry". It makes one wonder why the 9/11 Commission was such a whitewash - a majority of the senior commissioners, including the two co-chairs and lead counsel have said that "we were not told the truth about what happened", and "we were set up to fail" and "we were lied to by the CIA, NORAD and the Pentagon". It makes one wonder why the Joint Chiefs issued a change of protocol (CJCSI3610.01A) regarding the scrambling of planes in response to aerial emergencies on June 1, 2001, which stripped all USAF base commanders of their authority to order a scramble operation, transferring those permissions to the Defense Secretary (Don Rumsfeld) in person. It just happened that Rumsfeld was "unavailable" during the two critical hours that morning. Without that change of procedure, none of those planes would have reached their targets before being challenged. The original protocol was restored on 9/12/2001.

Why did the CIA's field station in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia authorize the quick issuance of US Visas to all 15 Saudi Arabian nationals who were alleged to have been amongst the 19 hijackers?

I don't know the answers to any of these and 1000 other anomalous aspects of 9/11 which make no sense if the official story was the truth and nothing but the truth. The "batshit" elements clearly rest with what the corporate media and the US Government "informed" us. Our comfort zone filled in the gaps.

doommaggot  ·  3483 days ago  ·  link  ·  

There absolutely is evidence of the plane ticket purchases. Listed here in chronological order

There is also quite a lot of information available about the amount of flight training that the hijackers received. while not experts, they did have a fair amount of actual flight experience and significant simulated flight experience.

There also was a lot of independent scientific investigation of the incident which was not stopped or hindered by the US government. For example this computer simulation done by Purdue University and this investigation by popular mechanics

organicAnt  ·  3483 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It'd be interesting to hear b_b's response to this.

Thanks for taking the time to write, it feels like the cavalry has arrived! I was feeling a bit lonely around here.

Building 7 is intriguing enough but I didn't know about half of the stuff you mention! What would you say are the best 9/11 research resources?

sounds_sound  ·  3484 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I haven't watched the video and I'm leaving off grid for the weekend so I'm afraid I won't be much help on the matter. Demo, in terms of taking down a whole building isn't something that most architects would know how to do. It's definitely a specialized field, since the majority of architects and engineers are in the business of trying to keep buildings up - not tearing them down. In terms of structural capacity and fire strength of the steel, what I can tell you is that material testing is typically done in a lab without any unknown externalities so that what can be learned is reduced to a very small quantity of environmental conditions. This testing is what allows people to guarantee performance and state that "this building should act this way". Once a building or material enters the real world though, there are contingencies that can never be planned for. Starting the day the material is produced, it is susceptible to so many variables. For example, what kind of intumescent paint was used? What is the shelf life of the paint? Was the steel primered in shop or on site? How much exposure did the building have to water? Pollution or exhaust? How long did the material sit on site before erection? Was the building fabricated to spec? Was it constructed to spec? Were the welds tested? Was the concrete tested? What was the outcome of these tests? What about seismic testing? Any little thing that can somehow compromise the integrity of the steel material, fabrication to construction should be questioned because over a long enough period of time, a seemingly small imperfection in material integrity or maintenance could have large built up consequences. Some of this stuff may have been covered in the video, I don't know.

Looking at the comments, I agrees with zebra2. The main question is "What would be gained from this?" I don't think anymore than if just two buildings went down.

organicAnt  ·  3484 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Thanks for your insight. It's great that you took the time to reply but it'd be greater to know your opinion after watching the video of how building 7 collapsed.

    The main question is "What would be gained from this?" I don't think anymore than if just two buildings went down.

As I mentioned before, to answer that question it would be to speculate and therefore enter the realm of conspiracy theory. Because we don't know the answer all we can do is watch the evidence and allow it to take us where it will. Hence why the sole purpose of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 truth is to push for a new independent investigation.

thenewgreen  ·  3484 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Thanks for the insight sounds_sound, that was actually quite helpful. have a great weekend.

organicAnt  ·  3485 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Thanks for this @thenewgreen

I agree, it'd be great to hear @sounds_sound opinion.

Richard Gage in that interview says the group Architects and Engineers for 9/11 truth contains about a dozen structural engineers who have signed the petition for a new independent investigation. However we don't need to be a trained expert to look and see the similarities between how building 7 came down and controlled demolition.

Like Richard Gage says, fires would NOT cause all columns of the infrastructure to fail simultaneously. Fires have burned steal frame high raises before for much longer than Building 7 burned and none of them collapsed in this pancake like fashion.

user-inactivated  ·  3485 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Just to piggy back a bit here, I work with a lot of architecture students, many of which are my close friends, so I'll ask for their opinion tonight. Just to give them some credibility, they're fourth year students in a five year accredited program and some are working in firms currently so its not like they're first year students or anything. I guarantee most of them will tell me its a better question for a civil engineer, so if we have a resident civil engineer that'd be even better!

organicAnt  ·  3485 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Thanks @ThatsAFreeThinker it'd be great to get as many people to watch it as possible.

What do you personally think after watching the video?

thenewgreen  ·  3484 days ago  ·  link  ·  

For the record, I watched it and agree with b_b's assessment of the claim. But I did watch it and I don't think it's a bad practice to question such events to an extent.