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comment by thenewgreen
thenewgreen  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: "you are muted here"

    It allows people to 'win' arguments by replying to the person and then muting them so they cannot reply back
This is a valid point, it's something we should consider.

    There will be those on this site who will claim otherwise, but nothing I've seen here has really been any more meaningful than the sorts of discussions I find on reddit (and in many ways, much less meaningful).
-Hubski is not Reddit. We do not want to be Reddit. Reddit is Reddit and they're damn good at being Reddit. I have a high opinion of what Reddit has accomplished. I very much enjoy their AMA's and other aspects of the site and there are certainly places where great conversations occur, all the time.

    The 'old timers' have more power on this site by design for that very reason
-A good idea is a good idea and much of the functionality of Hubski has come from new users making suggestions. Old user/New User it's a pretty level playing field.

    the last 'influx of redditors' was met with a suggestion to be able to auto-ignore every account that was less than X days old, and it was seriously considered by the admins (I have no idea if they went forward with it or not).
-We have not implemented this. That said, the idea has ZERO to do with reddit and everything to do with new users having the same questions about the site each time we have an influx. By the way, the largest influx we've had wasn't from reddit, I believe it was a Hacker News post or perhaps an article from the Daily Dot. Either way, the questions are relatively the same regardless of where the people are coming from. The suggestion wasn't to ignore "redditors" it was to ignore the redundant questions that inevitably come with a new influx of users. It's a valid suggestion and worth consideration.

If we had an anti-reedit sentiment here, we would be a self-loathing group as the many of the users here hail from there -some of my personal favorites. AND many of the users here actively use both sites, and why wouldn't they? Both sites have their own virtues. It's not a competition.

    And the worst part is that the discussion is better on reddit anyway, but I'm sure that's just opinion as well.

I think you've made it clear where you'd rather spend your time. In fact, I recall you mentioning in a comment that you would no longer be on Hubski, yet you return. Why is that? Do you secretly dig it here?





humanodon  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    It allows people to 'win' arguments by replying to the person and then muting them so they cannot reply back

I can't speak for anyone but me, but I see a huge part of "internet culture" as revolving around "winning" arguments and I think that using a faceless interface to get the thrills of confrontation and victory are pretty sad. Pretty fucking sad. But, if people on hubski want to do that, cool. But I sure as hell appreciate the ability to mute someone or to ignore them. Not "filter". Ignore.

I realize that I am probably in the minority, but I hope that the mute feature will stay the same. I don't generally get into arguments with people on hubski and I don't really care to. However, there are a growing number of voices I don't care to hear. They might be ok, but as in real life I'd like the discretion to make that decision on my own time.

Edit:

Aw shucks, one less follower.

thenewgreen  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I realize that I am probably in the minority, but I hope that the mute feature will stay the same.
-I don't think you are in the minority. But I do think some interesting ideas have emerged from this thread that we will consider moving forward. The "shades of ignore" concept that ButterflyEffect mentioned, as well as your Thunderdome idea are both up there. In fact, I found myself having to excuse myself from the site for a bit in lieu of taking the Thunderdome approach.

As it is, I'm off to record music. Huzzah!

humanodon  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Use the rage to become both Master AND Blaster!

user-inactivated  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I find myself agreeing with you.

I think mute should stick around because just as anyone is entitled to saying whatever they want to whoever they want, people are just as entitled to not wanting to have to hear what you want to say.

Edit: I don't know why I said "I find myself agreeing with you." That's a weird way of saying that. Whatever, haha.

user-inactivated  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It's a bit of a strawman to imply that's the issue people are having with the mute feature.

It isn't. I think all of us would agree that if you don't want people to be a part of your experience, then you can do so.

but actively disallowing them from responding to a comment of yours is not simply muting. Hubski could simply hide it from you and let everyone else see it so the conversation can continue and you don't have to have them in your face.

That is the point of contention, not whether or not someone should be allowed to mute, but whether or not mute should prevent someone from having their opinion heard by anyone.

humanodon  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Edit: I don't know why I said "I find myself agreeing with you." That's a weird way of saying that. Whatever, haha.

Because you're a proper young gent when you feel like it, that's why! But yes, that is a nice way of rephrasing my feelings on the matter. If we have tools for social interaction online similar to the tools we use to interact in real life, perhaps we may be civil to each other online, as we are in real life, no?

ButterflyEffect  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Whoa wait a minute. After seeing both of yours, and kbs comments, I had an idea.

What if we had both.

What if we had mute, but also an "ignore comments" feature? That way if I'm leaning more towards indifference I could just not see their comment, but if I'm in a situation with say, a certain someone, I don't want them commenting on my stuff at all and then bam. Both worlds.

Though I guess the only way to avoid people complaining is to eliminate mute, since going through a 3rd party to initially communicate is rarely going to be the first thing that comes to a persons mind for resolving the issue.

humanodon  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I don't know how hard "shades of ignore/mute" would be to implement, but it might be something to play around with.

Or what if we just had a #thunderdome where people could duke it out and not have their shit bleed all over the site?

ButterflyEffect  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

wait I had an even better idea

we just get rid of commenting altogether

user-inactivated  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Hubski becomes a post modernist portrayal of the Internet

Everyone communicates through Dadaist Vimeo clips

user-inactivated  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  

humanodon  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I sure do love this video.

mkr  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

This is Digg. Digg is fine. The world only needs one Digg.

user-inactivated  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You have every right to completely shut someone out of your experience on Hubski, if you think those are the arguments people like me are making, you're misunderstanding us.

You shouldn't have the right to disallow others to join in a conversation, which is the aspect of the mute functionality that's being called into question.

user-inactivated  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    It allows people to 'win' arguments by replying to the person and then muting them so they cannot reply back

    This is a valid point, it's something we should consider.

My first thought is, maybe you can't mute someone for a specific amount of time after you've replied to them?

So say I diss you because the Beatles suck, then I want to bar the door by muting you. I get some pop-up or whatever that's like "Yo, you just commented about how much the Beatles suck, you have to wait a bit before you can mute that dude."

Thoughts?

user-inactivated  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    -Hubski is not Reddit. We do not want to be Reddit. Reddit is Reddit and they're damn good at being Reddit. I have a high opinion of what Reddit has accomplished. I very much enjoy their AMA's and other aspects of the site and there are certainly places where great conversations occur, all the time.

When you start claiming to be a 'community for thoughtful conversations' you immediately start competing with reddit. How you choose to characterize that competition doesn't change that.

And reddit tends to have better conversations than Hubski because of the level playing field.

    -A good idea is a good idea and much of the functionality of Hubski has come from new users making suggestions. Old user/New User it's a pretty level playing field.

This has nothing to do with my point. We're talking about the creation and distribution of content, and being 'an old hand' on this site automatically means you're going to be more successful with both. On Reddit everyone gets a single vote to help decide if content should stay or go.

Two completely different ideas and I'm astounded that you've conflated the two in your response to me.

    That said, the idea has ZERO to do with reddit and everything to do with new users having the same questions about the site each time we have an influx.

Not true. The idea was originally put forth by Klein as a reaction to the reddit influx that resulted when reddit changed the way they displayed up/downvotes. I don't personally care where the 'biggest influx' comes from, I know what prompted klein to make the suggestion.

I have personally had the term 'redditor' spit at me a few times. Or was this my imagination?

    If we had an anti-reedit sentiment here, we would be a self-loathing group as the many of the users here hail from there -some of my personal favorites. AND many of the users here actively use both sites, and why wouldn't they? Both sites have their own virtues. It's not a competition.

It's implied that people who dislike reddit have been on reddit in the past, and in fact, most of the point I made in my original response is predicated on the fact that a very large portion of the Hubski's population originally hailed from reddit (including the founders).

    I think you've made it clear where you'd rather spend your time. In fact, I recall you mentioning in a comment that you would no longer be on Hubski, yet you return. Why is that? Do you secretly dig it here?

Another one, that's 2 for 1 (see https://hubski.com/pub?id=166271).

Strange how a site so big on discourse seems to have one of the admins falling into the trap of attacking someone for being open about their opinions of the site.

You fix the muting issue, and you'll see me being a lot more positive towards this site.

thenewgreen  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Strange how a site so big on discourse seems to have one of the admins falling into the trap of attacking someone for being open about their opinions of the site.
where did I attack you?
user-inactivated  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I quoted it.

Meriadoc  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Look, man. TNG is too nice to attack people, but I'm really not, and I'm reeeeeally sick of seeing these comments pop up all the time. If you don't like the way things are run, actively involve yourself by making suggestions for making it better or not. Not this "I have a low opinion of the site" and "it's not as good as reddit" bullshit.

If you don't like it here, don't be here. We like it here, and I don't see anything of value lost from people who's seemingly main purpose of being on this site is to complain about it leaving. I value the opinions of the people here and what they have to say, I don't mute people who express their opinions, but I would for spammers and straight up assholes.

user-inactivated  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

If I link you to atleast 3 different comments of mine making suggestions for the site, will you apologize to me?

Meriadoc  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Not a chance in hell. Because you aren't constructive in them. You're just a dick about it. There's no real suggestions, just complaining. I just went through your entire 28 day history of shitposting. Racism, sexism, bigotry, intentionally missing the point and making everything about you. I don't associate with garbage that makes safe places like we have here less secure, even when your intention is clearly to get a rise out of people.

People like you are the reason why there isn't enough representation across the web, because you're the kind of asshole that makes it impossible for them to do it.

When I made my previous comment, I knew you were an ass already, but I assumed you were at least someone to be responded to with some respect, perhaps a level of having you stay on the site if you understood how we went about things, but now, I don't give a shit. I don't want your kind around here in the first place, but when you've clearly gone on a tear for a month and have angered my friends and made them uncomfortable, I no longer will tolerate it.

You're officially the first person I will mute after this conversation has run its course.

user-inactivated  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    and have angered my friends and made them uncomfortable, I no longer will tolerate it.

And therein lies the real danger of the mute feature. It's not really about whether or not I've made constructive suggestions to this site, it's about whether or not your friends find my comments uncomfortable.

And this should be the litmus test for whether or not I even get to join in on a conversation.

Here, let me be an asshole now.

Folks like you are the reason atrocities happen. The fundamental lack of fairness to people that are different than yourself.

now I'm truly terrible, but, say what you will, I have made many suggestions for changes that would make this site more in-line with what I expect from it.

As you learned when you read through my history, that is definitely not an accusation that can be leveled at me unless you're ignorant.

user-inactivated  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    And this should be the litmus test for whether or not I even get to join in on a conversation.

Yes it is. That's how communities work. I've never seen you before this thread, but from the way TNG, Meriadoc and 8bit react to you, I'm reasonably sure you're an asshole. I'm not going to mute you, because if our paths haven't crossed so far they probably won't again, but I'm not interested in engaging with you either.

user-inactivated  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

That's not how online communities work.

    but from the way TNG, Meriadoc and 8bit react to you, I'm reasonably sure you're an asshole.

I'm a terrible person, you can tell because 3 people disliked my opinion. You should definitely continue making decisions in that manner, I'm sure it'll treat you well.

_refugee_  ·  3540 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Three people that bfv knows, trusts, and has interacted with over a great deal of time. You know, in meatspace, I think they call them "friends." If three of your friends who you trusted told you someone was a dick, would you assume they were probably a dick? You wouldn't avoid them, but you wouldn't seek them out and maybe you would approach them with caution?

If you say no, then why are you friends with people whose opinions you don't trust?

user-inactivated  ·  3540 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It's an online community on a public forum for content aggregation.

Perhaps the problem is that some of you are having difficulty emotionally keeping your distance so instead you feel that you should have the right to form cliques and try as hard as you can to ruin someone elses experience of the site.

I can't stop you from being so petty, but I can have a low opinion of you for your willingness to do so.

arguewithatree  ·  3540 days ago  ·  link  ·  

hey guess what...the internet doesn't operate in a vacuum!!! behind these usernames are real live people!!! with real live feelings!!! who crave real live interactions!!! and you're disrupting that. you're the kid in the sandbox who throws sand in everyone's eyes and wonders why no one wants to hang out with you.

you think badly of our community.

so leave.

user-inactivated  ·  3540 days ago  ·  link  ·  

it seems strange that the ones doing the muting don't think about the "real live feelings" of the ones they're muting.

user-inactivated  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Here, let me be an asshole now.

Oh shit, those other moments weren't you being an asshole, woops, wish I had known that.

user-inactivated  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Those other moments were me expressing an opinion the other person disliked.

user-inactivated  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Oh god, I just can't anymore.

Yes mrieland, your opinion is the reason people dislike interacting with you.

God, you're so lucky I find you entertaining. St this point.

user-inactivated  ·  3541 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'll end the conversation since you can't seem to.

Also, it's mreiland, not mrieland. It's german so it often gets misprounced as mrieland, but it's actually spelled mreiland :)

_refugee_  ·  3540 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    When you start claiming to be a 'community for thoughtful conversations' you immediately start competing with reddit

HAHAHAHAHA

    And reddit tends to have better conversations than Hubski because of the level playing field

Dude, what fucking subreddits do you lurk? No, I want to know, because I'm seriously subscribed to about 75 including ones that are specifically for thought-provoking discussion and articles, like r/trueaskreddit, r/depthhub, r/metareddit, and so on. You know the two subreddits I honestly find the most interesting discussion? r/fitness and r/relationships. And it is not thought-provoking.