a thoughtful web.
Good ideas and conversation. No ads, no tracking.   Login or Take a Tour!
comment by Hell
Hell  ·  3705 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Alec Baldwin: Good-bye, Public Life

Do you think that, in his anger Alec was purposely using an expletive that was homophobic? He could have just as easily called the man a piece of shit or an asshole which would have not targeted any specific group of people.

When people grow up they are surrounded and influenced by the words of their peers. In high school and through adulthood especially in New York, swearing is nothing to blush at. While the literal meanings of those words are slurs, the intent of the person saying them shouldn't automatically be assumed to be racist, homophobic or sexist when the expletive itself was likely the result of muscle memory and the general vocabulary of their upbringing.

Not sure why I'm defending a celebrity on here, but I guess my consensus is that people are too fucking sensitive.





_refugee_  ·  3705 days ago  ·  link  ·  

By your logic, Baldwin could've called the man a n* and it would be the black people's fault for getting upset about it. You really ready to stand by that?

Let me know as soon as we live in a society where not intending to do something becomes a valid defense for having done it. While you're at it, you can let everyone who's ever been convicted of manslaughter know as well. Cool?

Hell  ·  3705 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Nigger is not a word that get's thrown around very frequently by white people except by those who are actually racist or are intentionally use it to cause harm, or by black people themselves who are referring to someone of their own race in a negative light. So it would be out of character for Alec to use that word considering the general vocabulary and conditions of his upbringing. But if he did in fact use that word, it would more likely be seen as racist.

But he didn't. And you can bring up what if situations to try and manipulate "my logic" as you see it, but I prefer to base my reasoning on what actually happened.

So, let me know when you're not comparing involuntary swearing after being assaulted by a paparazzi to the physical act of manslaughter, because clearly hyperbole is something you're susceptible to and it's muddying your message. Cool?

_refugee_  ·  3705 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I purposefully used both a very relevant example, and a hyperbolic example. However, even in simple traffic accidents, we don't live in a society where not intending to do something is considered a valid defense for having actually done it. That point still stands.

Baldwin used a word or word(s) that groups that have historically been discriminated against find inflammatory. Regardless of why he used that word, he still offended those people. You're basically saying "Oh, he hurt these people's feelings, but that's okay because he didn't mean to, and on top of that they're just being sensitive people."

I think that it is up to the marginalized group to determine what is offensive to them, not members of the dominant culture.

    Nigger is not a word that get's thrown around very frequently by white people except by those who are actually racist or are intentionally use it to cause harm

Yeah, but what if Baldwin had just, you know, like grown up in the south and people around him used that word all the time so he was raised to believe it's okay? So he just used it because he was raised always hearing it, and he didn't realize it was a slur?

That doesn't make it okay.

Hell  ·  3705 days ago  ·  link  ·  

1. We're not talking about traffic incidents. Your point is invalid.

2. If we left it up to margininalized groups to determine what is offensive and what isn't, we run the risk of an even more oppressive society where words are no longer words, but something we can be prosecuted for. Oh wait that is already happening.

That aside, of course the marginalized groups will speak up, and they should. But in this case with Alec Baldwin, even amongst people who identify as LGBT, they are conflicted. Just ask Dan Savage.

3. Again, he didn't say nigger. That was your reach to discredit the semantics of the word cocksucker. But if he did say that word, I'm guessing the reaction would be about the same as what happened to Paula Deen, who was born in the south, and who was not let off the hook. Of course that's not ok.

I think the question here why is this even an issue? Do you know how many racist things I hear every week just walking down the street? Because it came from a celebrity, in a moment of clear frustration he should absolutely be held to the neck for his words? You can't tell me you've never, ever said anything that could be perceived as a slight to a marginalized group, in all your life. The difference is you don't have a camera in your face recording it.