snoodog:

I know there is a lot of hate for PUA's and this guy is a real D-bag but I'd like to provide a counter story.

I benefited a lot from the knowledge that was shared in the fastseduction community. When I was a young single man in my early 20's, just out of college, earning well over the national median living on my own, I was really struggling to understand why I was having so little success with women. All my life I had been told that being well off an successful was going to get me the woman of my dreams, but that was just not happening and I was really confused. One of my friends had a copy of "The Game" which lead me towards discovering the PUA community at the fastseduction forums and IRC channel.

The interesting thing about that community was that they universally rejected the idea that one had to be rich or beautiful to succeed with women. The idea was that even someone who was poor and ugly could shag a "10" if they were a skilled enough PUA. There was of-course no universally accepted method of actually becoming that skilled PUA. There were lots of conflicting philosophies and self proclaimed "Gurus" selling bullshit, ebooks and classes but there was a lot of interesting frank discussion from people who were trying to better themselves. Where I got the most benefit was from the focus on self improvement and constant practice. The community was very supportive of people that went out and tried to meet girls (even if you failed miserably) and it provided a bit of needed social pressure to go out and actually try. Guys would help write text messages, coach eachother on how to avoid seeming needy, and how to navigate tricky dating situations. There was lots of philosophical discussion on what it means to be a modern "Man", and how one should balance between work, life and love.

For 21 year old me the PUA forum on fastseduction was a treasure trove of information and it helped push me to get out there and be social, date and shag. The knowledge I got there helped me overcome a lot of my social awkwardness and pushed me to become a more interesting and dynamic individual. Interestingly enough, the discussions had on the forum helped me overcome personal hang-ups I had with dating women that did not meet the classic definition of beauty. Turned out I liked girls I liked bigger girls as much as I liked the skinny girls. I don't think I would have ever been able to admit that on my own due to the huge social stigma associated with that.

That being said for all the good stuff there was also an obvious dark side. The guru guys were always selling the latest and greatest dating "Techniques" and classes. There was a huge incentive to advertise that one technique, pickup line or conversation formula would make beautiful women shag you, without having to actually go through the tough work of self improvement. These ideas attracted the most money, but they also tended to attract the wrong kinds of people. A lot of the guys got lost in the pursuit of better stats e.g. asking 100 girls out, taking to 100 strangers, sleeping with 10 girls a month, it wasn't a very healthy attitude to have but it appealed to certain personality types. There were also guys that were pretty bitter about their situation and previous rejections and those kinds of attitudes were pervasive enough that they were hard to stamp out and ignore.

Eventually there seemed to be a fracture in the seduction community between the "Guru" types that wanted to sell quick fixes and the guys that believed that the correct path to success with women was though becoming more interesting, refining social skills and improving fitness. The money was all in the "quick fix" end of the spectrum but when the long term guys left the community mostly died out without their knowledge and contribution. I'm actually surprised to see there are any self proclaimed PUA's left.

Looking back, I miss that place. There were some excellent discussions had that really shaped how I view the world and what role I as a man have in it. I really wish I could find another place like that where people could have such frank discussions about what it means to be a man and all the needs, wants, and failings that come with that without the judgement and political correctness. I also wish I there was a place where I could share some of my now decade of accumulated wisdom with guys in their early 20s who are in desperate need of it. I still haven't found anything quite like it.

As for me I can say I turned out pretty normal, shagged around for a few years, found a girl, dated for a couple years and got married.


posted by rinx: 1058 days ago