bolds are notes that I added after writing it initially
Alright. I'm hungover as balls. I'm upset that I'm too hungover to enjoy Halloween again tonight. I'm mad that it fucking downpoured last night and I was stuck in Hollywood...in the rain....with 10,000 other people trying to get Uber/Lyft/Cabs/etc. I'm pissed that the cab ride we finally got cost us $106. I'm really upset that the costume I spent 2 full weeks creating and sewing (I don't even know how to sew!) was worn for 6 hours total and is now soggy.
And now I am sad and mad about this. The shallow, hungover side of me wants to respond "oh fuck off", hide it from my feed, and not deal with it. This is the third post in as many months that address similar themes in similar tones. All have left me feeling increasingly shitty and concerned.
One thing that worries me is that this is suddenly a pattern. I'm not sure if these posts are partially the result of the previous posts - are they like suicides, where one person jumps from the 18th floor of the library, and suddenly everyone decides to kill themselves by jumping from the 18th floor of the library? But, one person jumping doesn't cause everyone to jump - individuals still independently, and for their own reasons, decide to die. The pattern only lies in the method.
Which is why it's not okay for me / us not deal with this. Obviously, something is going on that is causing people to feel this way. Even if I don't agree with and don't respect the choice to antagonistically and selfishly peace out in this manner, I'm going to do my best to understand what is causing people to feel like this. You can't keep going if there is a problem and you can't fix the problem without knowing what the problem is.
Just like em's post. Just like the last post of someone leaving. I'm going to start by saying:
TLDR: YOU HAVE VALID POINTS
You have some valid points. Hubski is not perfect. Hubski does not perfectly encapsulate "a place for thoughtful discussion" all of the time. Sidenote: I'm not sure when the tagline became something that people are are using as evidence that Hubski is a failure. It's what Hubski aspires to be. It's what Hubski's goal is, has always been, and will always be. Perhaps it should be more explicit: "Hubski: where we try to be the place for thoughtful discussion but utterly fail.)
TLDR: INSOM GET ALL SELFISH AND TALKS ABOUT HERSELF
I'm also going to explain something not everyone knows. A while back, I fucking blew up at kb. It was not one of my finest moments. It was pretty terrible, and I managed to let loose on a comment of his that definitely didn't deserve it. (like...seriously...I could've picked any other comment and, while it wouldn't have justified the way I handled the situation, it would have at least made a tiny bit of sense. Nope. I like to do things the retarded way.) But at that time, I shared some of your sentiments about kb. I thought it was deliberately and purposefully pissing people off. I imagined he survived exclusively by drinking fat glasses of malice and I saw each comment as a steaming stream of malice piss... all over my face.
TLDR: KB AINT TRYING TO BE A DICK (usually)
While my attack on kb was pretty much uncalled for on every level, the reasons I felt the way I felt about him were even more wrong. I can say, without a doubt, that kb does not write comments to piss you off. He does not get off on being a dick to you. A majority of the time, he doesn't even mean to be a dick. (There are times when he does - but they are blatantly obvious and usually short and sweet. They are also usually in response to people being dicks, or being outstandingly stupid and not even trying to not be stupid.) I will agree that kb likes to debate/argue/instigate/etc and once in a debate, he likes to win. He's also good at it, which is probably related to why he likes it so much. I like winning too. If I had any motivation, I would read the books he's recommended - or persuasion and anything else. (you're going to have to google site:hubski.com kleinbl00 books and start making a list.) At least then I would be armed with more than my 24 year old emotions before meddling with the devil on his home court.
TLDR: HEY WHY DON'T YOU TRY SOMETHING THAT MIGHT HELP YOUR SANITY SINCE KB IS SO BAD
Alas, I had no motivation and I found it much more productive and stress-free to simply not read every comment of his like he intended to piss you off. If you read them with the same respect you evidently feel that you deserve, you might find his tone is not as aggressive, combative, or personal as you make them. I know that simple change on my part allowed me to be more open minded, realize that kb is actually a pretty cool guy with a lot of crazy valuable insights, and actually will go out of his way to educate, discuss, and be helpful if you communicate with him. (Actually, even if you don't communicate with him. I think I have a still have a string of notes that I meant to respond to and never did....oops. Sorry kb!)
TLDR: HEY MAYBE KB REALLY IS A DICK TO YOU AND IM TOTALLY WRONG. (really - skip this part I'm only keeping it because it took me a lot of time)
You made it fucking difficult to find the shit you referenced when you deleted your account. I managed to find the latest movie thread, where he didn't respond to you...not even once.
1. I went through every single movie post tagged #movieclub and did a search for both "user-" and "klein". I found zero interaction...ever.
2. I did google search for hubski and your name and pulled up every page that google has indexed, and then searched for "klein". I found one interaction, from 106 days ago (you joined the site 155 days ago): https://hubski.com/pub?id=166843 Reading that thread, I see a fucking boatload of snark and instigation coming from you. Like...holy shit:
If you had responded to my points in that way, I would have gotten very agitated with you. I'm surprised that KB's responses were as mellow as they were. I was expected to find a battle. I found him making a few concise points with only one line that is not as concise, but not exactly earth-shatteringly snarky or aggressive: "The choice is simple: Are you willing to abase yourself enough to bridge the gap of discussion? Then do so. Would you rather sit in your castle of high dudgeon maintaining that you have no need to apologize? Then accept that you've been muted." (I'm curious if KB had muted you at this point and was using you to literally or if he was using you as a general pronoun? Based on the entire context, I am 99% sure its the latter and this may your first interaction with him.)
3. I then went through KBs comments for the last 50 days. proof
This is the ONLY INTERACTION BETWEEN YOU AND HIM IN THE LAST 50 days (besides the relationship post) here.:
--- [KB attacks 8bit: "Never ask your parents or your friends for an honest opinion about your writing." :( 8bit: "Why ya gotta stunt on a brotha like that, Klein." Klein admits he's truly in love with Hubskina.}(https://hubski.com/pub?id=185751) :)
--- but then we end up at one lined snarkies by both sides -> you dont want to debate it further (what debate?) -> kb, "understand if I didn't give a shit about you and your writing, I wouldn't give a shit about this." -> you "I have no plans to mute you. I disagree with you, and that's the end of it" -> HUGGIES!
-------note: the above love from kb directly contradicts this statement you make: "and you definitely don’t care about the person to which you’re responding."
I don't even know if that's you. I hope its not serial lurker confusing me again. :(
TLDR: CONCLUSION: I'VE FOUND 2 INTERACTIONS IN LAST 50 DAYS, AND ONCE 100 DAYS AGO, BOTH WEREN'T ANYWHERE CLOSE TO WHAT YOU MADE IT SEEM LIKE WITH YOUR POST .
Granted, if he responded to you and you never responded back, it wouldn't show up in my "user-" search on his comment page. So if that's the case and kb is literally commenting on your comments and posts incessantly and insulting you, I apologize. I truly don't think that's the case though.
and now I am upset for an entirely new reason.
Because you just made this fucking post and rage quit on us. I went and spent a good amount of time trying to figure out where the issues were, why we have people quitting on us like this, and what the fuck is going on. I wanted to know why Hubski is suddenly a place for not thoughtful discussion. What I found was that there is literally no evidence backing up your claims that KB is a dick to you, is everywhere, and is ruining your experience. Nor that hubski doesn't want to be thoughtful. I thought there were problems and omg the world might end. I feel deceived, and exhausted.
Interacting with people is what you make it. Hubski is what you make it. Somehow, you seem to have become obsessed with kb and perhaps it is this obsession that has caused you to think that he has invaded your space and is inescapable.* He is not. He does not dominate Hubski, as much as his follower count would lead you to believe. he average share of Kb's posts are no higher than any other active user who has been on the site for a bit. He may comment more and comment longer, but I don't see how his comments lead you to be unable to comment as well. I mean...just read the post and comment, man. Don't get all wrapped up in kb's comments.
Being obsessed with KB is a fairly typical thing - I wouldn't recommend asking _refugee_ for advice on how to not be obsessed with him, but perhaps you can start a kb-obsessed support group or something?
The fact that he doesn't seem to respond to you as much as you've lead us to believe also makes it very hard for me to understand the line about "...But I won't put up with being chased around and shouted down at every opportunity" I was genuinely concerned that kb may have turned into a rapist. But I think ref's point, "This reminds me, uncomfortably, of people who tell women to smile more....." is pretty spot on. The fact that you are the one who is publicly defacing kb shows a lot about your character.
This line doesn't make any sense to me: "
It's a real shame that good people can do a single thing that will forever change the way people perceive them and remember them. Frankly, I found you to be a cool guy and welcomed another developer on Hubski. I enjoyed the myriad of threads that we had that went for days (sometimes because I forgot to respond - other times because we just wandered about the conversation). As much as I'll try to remember those times and not this post when I think about you, the reality is is that this post carries much more weight as it is charged with emotion. Everything about this sucks...and it's raining again. Ah well... all those moments will be lost...like tears in rain and shit.