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comment by steve
steve  ·  4224 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: 18 years ago 1 year ago no hours left in the day

Great question. I don't claim to be an expert on the subject, but I'll shoot from the hip.

I'd be hesitant to call it communism, or even socialism. There is a vast difference between those political ideologies and the religious principle we call the Law of Consecration (united order). It is basically a commitment members make acknowledging that everything they have comes from God, and that if needed, the member would give everything they have to the church for the building up of the kingdom. It has been used a few times in church history, but typically in times of severe need.

Currently, members are asked to pay a tithe (10%) of their increase. In addition to this, they fast (no food or water) one day each month and donate the funds that would have been spent on that food and donate that as a "fast offering" to the church. These funds are used in different ways. Tithing pays for things like buildings, maintenance, fleet vehicles, printed materials, activities, etcetera. The Fast Offerings are used 100% for helping the needy. There are no paid clergy in the church at any level, so there is zero overhead.

I think that Randian Objectivism might be a bit of a stretch. While there are clearly some Randites in the flock, I think the vast majority of mormons just believe in hard work. They work hard, earn a living and don't like a government encroaching on their income with higher taxes. They give their time and money to create a safety net with little to no waste. It's hard to see the government with huge waste. You'll have a hard time finding a group of people more patriotic at their core. All this despite a touchy relationship with the government at times (in the state of Missouri you could have killed me for being a mormon up until 1976).

I don't know if I really answered your questions well, not being an expert in church history, nor in Rand. I think perhaps the most important thing to realize is that members of this church are... just that: members of a church. It's a religion, not a political party. You'll find democrats, republicans, communists, socialists, feminists, and probably almost any other *ist you can think of. Even within my family you'll run the gamut on social/political issues. The current 12 apostles don't see eye to eye on every issue. This church is made up of all kinds of people.





JakobVirgil  ·  4224 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Good to hear it. I read American Religion got excited. Then every Mormon I met was a super right wing Rabid anti-communist.

In the public eye you have folks like Glenn Beck making y'all look crazy.

It's weird cuz Brigham Young's Utah had a centrally planned economy.

steve  ·  4224 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Oh boy... Glenn Beck... I try to be a tolerant person, but he tests my patience. On behalf of Mormons everywhere, I apologize for GB, Orin Hatch, and Marie Osmond.

JakobVirgil  ·  4224 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I met Marie once she is kinda hot. What did she do to be ashamed of? The is might have turned into as was by now. :(

steve  ·  4224 days ago  ·  link  ·  

hahahah... I was actually just kidding about good ol' Marie. I was replying from my phone during a meeting at work and she was the first mormon celebrity to come to mind. I took her niece out on a date in college once... the Osmonds generate good looking progeny.

Or maybe it's because she's a little bit country...

JakobVirgil  ·  4224 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Went out with an Osmond good on yah. I will maintain my watch on you. Harry Reid and Glenn Beck in the same religion.

steve  ·  4224 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Harry Reid and Glenn Beck in the same religion.

scandalous, no?

b_b  ·  4224 days ago  ·  link  ·  

JFK and Paul Ryan are the same religion, too! I find in life that people ascribe a lot of their moral beliefs and ways of life to their faith or lack of faith, but in the end some people are jerks and some people are awesome, end of story. This seems to be completely independent of creed or affiliation.

Edit: But is Glen Beck really even a Mormon? Isn't he part of some offshoot sect started by an End-of-Times type nut? I think the man's name is Skousen, or something similar.

steve  ·  4224 days ago  ·  link  ·  

mormon.

JakobVirgil  ·  4223 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Is Cleon Skousen sill around that guy was too nucking futs for the John Birchers. Y'all let him stay around?

steve  ·  4222 days ago  ·  link  ·  

He died a few years ago. I haven't read much of his stuff. I'm not proud of some of the John Birchers that have come from the beehive state.

JakobVirgil  ·  4221 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Is that were you live Utah? I have visited several times for the film festival and for the parks in the southern part of the state. I like it not a small bit.

steve  ·  4221 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Nope. I lived in Utah on a few occasions, but currently do not. It is a great place to visit though.

b_b  ·  4221 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Among the most beautiful states in the country by my estimate (full disclosure, I've never been to AK, HI or NM).

steve  ·  4221 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Do you ski or snowboard? I haven't traveled the world, but I have to say, nothing else I've ever seen compares to Utah snow. When you measure packed power and fresh powder in feet instead of inches, you know it's good...

My one complaint about Utah (besides all the mormons) is the way they make their milkshakes. I know it sounds trivial (I am a bit of a milkshake connoisseur.) But when I lived there for a couple of years, it was torture. I'm a purist. A milkshake should be drunk through a straw. In Utah, they make everything thick... like a blizzard at Dairy Queen. And don't get me wrong, I love a good blizzard. But when I want a chocolate malt, I want to be able to drink it through a straw. And when you ask for the shake a little thinner, so you can drink it through the straw - the kid behind the counter looks at you like you just ordered a stake that could be eaten with a spoon. It's a cross between confusion and disgust.

b_b  ·  4221 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I love to ski (don't do it nearly enough), but I haven't made it to Utah to do so. Hopefully, one day.

Obviously you don't want a malt to be eaten with a spoon. Leave it to the Mormons to take the fun out of milkshakes! (I kid, I kid).

JakobVirgil  ·  4221 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I do enjoy utah scones and Navajo tacos is there still that frybread place in Salt Lake?

steve  ·  4221 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Sconecutter?

JakobVirgil  ·  4220 days ago  ·  link  ·  

No an amerind place. The Frybread house. I think the people were dine.

JakobVirgil  ·  4224 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It is a good argument that you are not mindless drones.