16Its known most commonly as "men's rights."
I will also preface further discussion by saying that this is not prompted by anything on hubski; this is barely even prompted by things in real life. [edited to remove irrelevant reference to reddit.]
Before we get further in, and I apologize for the delay in discussion, I would like everyone to remain civil in the comment section. Hubski has so far been very good about this, but this is not a subject that people are necessarily cool headed about, and for good reason. Please, please, by whatever god or force you believe in, restrain yourself in the comments.
I am a white American male, middle class, well educated. I am agnostic and exploring Buddhism. I haven't had anything horribly traumatic happen to me; I have never been raped, molested, assaulted, or even really in a fight. If you've read some of my other posts you know that this is in part due to my size, and part of it is due to the fact that I avoid conflict. I do not like fights.
However, the common assumption about me, portrayed by the media (both "independent" and more conventional), is that I am a pig; that I am racist, sexist, constantly horny, and unable to express emotion. The same thing goes for my father, who actually does make a good amount of money, and has trouble expressing emotions. I am told, both by special interest groups and by society at large, that I am a bad person.
Why?
Well, that's not a simple answer. I haven't found it myself. Its not exactly an issue that's well in the public eye; I mean, I'm a decently attractive white middle class male with no major problems outside of ADHD, which isn't severe and I'm medicated for. I'm not exactly repressed, oppressed, or otherwise abused. In fact, I have it pretty well off.
But I should feel guilty about it. Or at least that's what I'm told. Having money should make me feel bad; the fact that I have not suffered as much as others should make me feel bad; the fact that I'm the "majority" means that I am wrong. This is an inherently flawed viewed; its just as sexist, racist, and bigoted as any other type of discrimination. And I think its part of a larger issue with American culture.
I apologize for talking exclusively about American culture, by the way, but I am most familiar with it. Sorry everyone else. Have a me born in you, and they can make their own hubski posts.
What I'm talking about is the demonization of normal. I would actually call it the idealization of the individual, but that's not quite what it is. Normal is viewed as boring; when you say you did the normal things it means that the day was uneventful, dull, drab, unappealing. Normal is viewed as bad. Its especially prevalent in the educational system; if you get a "C" you might as well be failing. "C" is not average, its a "B" or an "A."
Its a view that normal people, with desk jobs and interests that are normal (sports, movies, television) are not only boring, they're downright offensive. Its the idea that the "normal" white male is going to be slightly racist, sexist, and a sex-addict. And its dumb.
It very much reminds me of a fight I had with my ex a while back, who went through some rather tough times in her past. I was having some difficulties with job stuff; I was in the leg-end of my time at Walmart as an overnight worker (though I didn't know it was the end at the time), and was stressed about some family issues as well. She very clearly, and angrily, told me that she had always wanted to tell me to "shut the fuck up" because my problems were "nothing compared to hers." I'm paraphrasing slightly to avoid saying the actual issue, but the gist of the message was such:
"You have problems which are unexceptional. You can't be stressed; my problems are worse."
At the time I was pissed, as I would naturally be, but now I'm intrigued. I sincerely hope you all aren't waiting for some grand conclusion; this is an ongoing discussion. So here it is:
Do you think that perhaps victimization is the new way to compete; the idea that the more you suffer the more of a "person" is now how we are judged? I think its a question worth exploring, and whether or not that's a good thing isn't even something we can answer yet. To me, if its true, its actually very depressing. But let's figure out if its true first.
x 2- Please, please, by whatever god or force you believe in, restrain yourself in the comments.
Everyone's pain is equally valid, even if what they have suffered through isn't equal. The spoiled teen who doesn't get a car for Christmas when they turn 16 can feel more pain then the kid growing up unloved in a poor household who gets nothing. This doesn't mean that the spoiled teen has gone through greater tribulation then the unfortunate teen, it's just how they are/have been wired.
I have known people with normal problems who suffered to a much greater extent then people with totally fucked up horrible problems. I have known normal problem high suffering people who killed themselves and thought that it was probably the right move, life just wasn't for them. I don't say that cynically, I say it with compassion. I have been fond of and continually pained by these individuals inability to live the lives that I thought they could have realized.
- However, the common assumption about me, portrayed by the media (both "independent" and more conventional), is that I am a pig; that I am racist, sexist, constantly horny, and unable to express emotion.
- I am told, both by special interest groups and by society at large, that I am a bad person.
- the fact that I have not suffered as much as others should make me feel bad; the fact that I'm the "majority" means that I am wrong. This is an inherently flawed viewed; its just as sexist, racist, and bigoted as any other type of discrimination.
- Do you think that perhaps victimization is the new way to compete?
Brief aside. I remember sitting around drinking and smoking with some people I met near my work. Every one was going around that table telling the stories of and showing the scars from their most sever misfortunes, laying it on thick. after four or five people told their embellished tale this one fella reaches under the table and whips off his prosthetic leg, slams it down on the middle of the table. No one know he was shy a flipper walked/ran as smoothly as anyone. Guy was pleased as could be at the reaction, he "won".
Anyway. You can be bummed out about your "normal" problems and how people portray your normalcy or you can get on with what ever it is that helps you happily while away the time. If you are worried about how the media (toothpaste and car salesmen to a man, nothing to do with any significant truth for the most part) are representing you then you should probably try and find a way to free yourself of that bullshit. You might want to realize that you are living in a relatively easy place to get along in, and are one of the blessed White males. Sure life is hard even for us the chosen people at times, but mostly harder to be other then what we are.
I am sorry that I forgot to capitalize Brown when referring to people, I don't feel like going back and finding every lapse, my academic habits are a bit rusty and it's lazy and poor form, but I'll let it stand. I probably missed a few Whites as well, but hey we don't really need the extra capitalization, were doing alright as it is.
But regardless, what feminists ask is that those who are white, cisgendered, straight, educated, able-bodied, etc. etc. is that we constantly check our privilege. Being the "normal" has EXTREME privileges that we can't even begin to understand completely, since we have never fully experienced the barriers that other groups of people have.
>However, the common assumption about me, portrayed by the media (both "independent" and more conventional), is that I am a pig; that I am racist, sexist, constantly horny, and unable to express emotion. The same thing goes for my father, who actually does make a good amount of money, and has trouble expressing emotions. I am told, both by special interest groups and by society at large, that I am a bad person.
Maybe we live in vastly different places on the globe, but I've never felt those stereotypes levied against me. Furthermore, do these stereotypes seep into every aspect of your life like stereotypes of other groups do for them? Do they keep men from getting jobs? Do they make people subconsciously value you as a lesser member of society? Are they portrayed in the media day in and day out? Are they part of the very social fabric of society?
Your whole post is about competition about victimization. But it really seems to me that you are the one trying to compete. Societal oppression of men is pretty much non-existent - except through gender roles which negatively affect both men and women.
IMHO the truth of the matter is that suffering is personal and does not always reflect external circumstances. Furthermore, suffering does not need to qualify or meet any standard in order to be genuine. On top of this, I strongly believe that tribal behavior is exclusive and breeds ignorance.
My life is very good at this moment. However, it hasn't always been easy, and I know that on any given day, it might take a turn for the worse.
Personally, the general dialog doesn't matter too much to me. It is always mostly wrong.
I try my best to look at each person, and to understand them and where they are coming from. IMO when you do this, you will find that most people are happy to do the same. Doing my best, I have found myself surrounded by people that enrich my life. IMHO the discussions that you refer to are fueled by many that are eager to change minds, but few that are eager to listen and to be changed.
Normal may be a genuine burden, or it might be nothing at all. Whatever the case, if you are empathic to those about you, they should want to understand your perspective. If this isn't the case, IMHO it's best to be critical of one's own ability to empathize first. Most often we get something proportional to what we give.
But to answer your last question: I think that victimization can at times become a badge of honor, or work as a banner of belonging. But, I wouldn't guess that this phenomenon is anything new. However, personally, I would stop there. I have no way of knowing whether or not someone is a victim, or really suffering, or not.
- Do you think that perhaps victimization is the new way to compete; the idea that the more you suffer the more of a "person" is now how we are judged? I think its a question worth exploring, and whether or not that's a good thing isn't even something we can answer yet. To me, if its true, its actually very depressing. But let's figure out if its true first.
I think that for a lot of people, they aren't existing if they aren't complaining. Expressions like, I'm so tired or this sucks are far too commonly uttered. So we know that their is negativity in abundance. Is it a competition of who is suffering more? For some people, yes. If you are interested in knowing where this "competition" of suffering comes from, I would highly recommend listening to this Eckhart Tolle's description of what he calls "the pain body". As an aspiring Buhdist, you may be familiar with some of the tenants.
In order for mankind to rise above this cyclical competition of pain vs. pain, we need to exist in the "now" and recognize that the vast majority of pain and suffering is self inflicted emotional pain.
You can't change the feeling but you can change the feeling about the feeling in a second or two -I'm a fan of this lyric. It's true.
I'm hopeful. I feel like my generation is far more open to an evolution of consciousness than previous generations ever were.
How many layers of meta can we get here? I'm guessing a whole lot.
- Do you think that perhaps victimization is the new way to compete; the idea that the more you suffer the more of a "person" is now how we are judged?
I don't really have some kind of "gotcha" point to that. I just wanted to point it out as something to think about.
Yes, this annoys me. The idea that it is impossible to suffer if you're not the one who is suffering the most is just ridiculous. The idea of 'first world problems', or that you shouldn't mind something just because some people have it worse is absurd.