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Privacy and Facebook Culture

by JTHipster · #privacy
posted 444 days ago · shared by: 13
I would like to start by asking everyone to try and refrain as best they can from entering the "If you post information in a public forum you deserve to have the information abused" circlejerk. I will explain that in a bit; for now, let's talk about privacy and its relation to culture.

I am very loose with my information, especially my name. It really wouldn't be all that hard to find where I live, where I work, where I go to school, etc. Bank account? Harder, since the only record I keep regarding that is the one in my head. Regardless, I give out personal information pretty freely. Why, you might ask? Isn't that dangerous?

For me, not entirely. I'm a big guy, I'm 6'2", I know how to handle myself in a fight. I know how to move pretty quietly, and I'm a good bit stronger than I look, which is saying something (I might not be incredibly athletic, but I've got enough muscles to defend myself.) I don't feel like I'm in any danger by revealing my name or general location to people (which for the record, is near Philadelphia). But, I do entirely understand that for people who aren't a 6'2" guy with high pain tolerance and a strong punching arm, this is not something you would do.

So how does this tie in to Facebook and other social networking sites? Well, simple: Facebook decides for the majority of people who are too busy to research or care about these issues, that they will be treated the same as a 6'2" guy, and guess what? They aren't. The good majority of people are not my size, my strength, not able to defend themselves as well as I can. Its just not what the world is like.

Let's step back for a bit and look towards something we can actually visualize a little bit better, a small analogy that isn't perfect but will serve. Imagine there is a small village up in the mountains of Afghanistan. The people there are mostly farmers, goat herders, not a high amount of income or anything. They eat comfortably, they don't really have much education, they aren't the smartest, most interesting, strongest, or really the most anything. They're pretty average. They work all day, and they're pretty busy. There's a public computer in the richest house, which has a slow satellite internet connection, and sometimes they'll use it to get news.

One day they find themselves caught between the Taliban and U.S. Forces. People are being killed, houses are burned, bombed, and destroyed. Everything they know is completely and utterly ruined. Was this entirely be surprise? Well, not really; a day or so earlier, there was an article in BBC World that talked about conflict in their region, and that people in the area should be wary.

So, were these people at fault? They clearly should have left; they had the information available, its their fault for not listening and preparing better. Right?

Well, no. The comparison is pretty simple; the vast majority of people don't have the time or the interest to become highly informed on the subject of privacy. People simple don't know, and how could they? Between work, school, and friends, who has the thoroughly research and navigate the often overly complicated privacy settings of social sites? When's the last time you thoroughly read the Terms and Services of a game you bought?

Facebook culture is one of surface convenience; its not a question of how it works, but whether or not it works at all. Does a car run? No, take it to the shop. Yes? Great, then keep going. This isn't really wrong or right. It represents a slow shift away from the increasing complexity of the world around us. When people complain about the amount of choices at a supermarket, its simply the other side of the coin; I don't care about what peanut butter I get. Does it say "Creamy Peanut Butter" somewhere on it? Well yes, then I'm getting that one. I don't care about what's in it, how its made. Its peanut butter. There's fifty other choices on the aisle alone, who cares about one more?

This is why we need to refrain from labeling the people who keep their facebook profiles open as "idiotic" or anything else insulting (although it also makes us pretentious dickholes, that's bad too.) Inform them about the problems? Yeah, of course. We shouldn't just ignore it, but telling people that they're dumb for not being as informed as people who spend hours and hours on the internet just reading about shit like this is like berating somebody who just wants to go on the internet for not using a Linuxbox.

Or, to make a comparison that more people will emphasize with, its like Mitt Romney calling people stupid for being poor. Don't be Mitt Romney.



by eb 444 days ago  ·  link  
While I can understand and agree with what you said. I don't think that the point of privacy, and the ones who advocate it, is the one you are making...

It is not about beeing harassed because you are not a 6'2", and, meanwhile you do, the others don't know how to handle themselves... I think It's all about the masses being used. It is about the ability to record everything you do and connect it with your persona. If you are not careful online they will know who and what are you talking to/about, what your income is (so they can estimate what your potential ability to buy is) what kind of fashion do you follow the clothes you wear (so they can select what to offer/put in front of your eyes), what do you usually buy, the places you frequent and spend your money to drink to eat...

You might remember the buzz created some months ago by the phrase:

If you are not paying for it, you're not the customer; you're the product being sold..

which, funny enough, in it's original form was:

The member of facebook is not a customer, they are the product. The advertisers are the customers.

As per the label part I will quote Neil deGrasse Tyson. I think what he said applies everywhere:

Labels are mentally lazy ways by which people assert they know you without knowing you.

So since computers are becoming an everyday part of our lives, people should be more educated, more computer literate and privacy is very important!

by sounds_sound 444 days ago  ·  link
The luxury of being 6'-2" eh? You would definitely get fucked with less. Your take on privacy is an interesting one. I came across this recently, which is why I still love the Times. That stuff just doesn't feel right to me.
by JTHipster 443 days ago  ·  link
I meant my height and strength to be a bit more analogous to, say, people being informed about the subject of privacy. In a way it kind of is; if you're smart, know what you're doing, and have a bit of skill, you can defend yourself well. You're the 6'2" guy from the internet.

Mass privacy is difficult to achieve; hopefully we will, and honestly apps like Girls Around Me are scary enough to start showing people what the hell is up. Hell, I'm uncomfortable with ever sharing my exact location with people I don't know; as a rule of thumb, I probably don't like the person, so why invite them near me?

But yes, a campaign for education about facebook privacy, along with movements to start promoting it, would be very, very useful. And, if I'm honest, I actually don't mind the whole "personal advertising" efforts. I don't think I've as of yet bought anything online that I saw through advertisements. I might have clicked a link once in 2003. That was it.

by greedo 443 days ago  ·  link
I agree with both of you. this is a question of the type of society we want to live in. Very big changes are happening and although we have a personal choice, we don't have much say in the way things are changing in general. Soon our personal choices could become irrelevant.
by ecib 442 days ago  ·  link
I have to imagine that there is going to be a day of reckoning sometime in the future for a lot of the people who share their information t0o freely. I think that it is going to take a long time for the population to become educated in keeping with the pace of technology. There has been a paradigm shift where everything is going social. Social networks have taken over the planet. Now our search engines are social and datamining us. That stupid little game you download on your phone to distract yourself for 20 mins? Social. Every tech company has or is waking up to the fact that their users are products whose demographic information can be monetized for personal gain. So you get shit like a crappy 'hangman' program on your phone data mining you. And the big players like Facebook are crafting their products to have you share everything by default, and make it difficult to figure out how not to. So you get apps like 'Girls around me', and you get scandals where apps like Path rip your contacts out of your phone and copy them to their database without your consent.

I think that people are sharing WAY too much information, but I don't fault them terribly much. They are being taken advantage of imo, left and right, by companies looking to make a buck. They are being lied to by omission, or explicitly, and the privacy statements of a lot of these companies are designed to obscure exactly what they collect about you. I think most people would be freaked out to know that Google can spit out a data sheet that has your name, residence, personality profile based on web surfing habits, along with the history of all the places you have ever been online, as well as the exact physical locations you have been, and probably are now. They don't think about it when they surf the web or use a map.

The sad reality is that there are no options. The internet is fairly essential to modern life. Social networks are as real as physical networks. Cutting yourself off in the name of privacy simply isn't realistic because there are no services (or collection of them rather) that do entirely what you need them to do without scraping your info and selling/utilizing it for monetary gain.

by b_b 442 days ago  ·  link
Sometimes its hard not to feel like a frog in the boiling water. Mussolini himself (proudly) defined Fascism as corporatism. In his vision, corporate entities and state entities would merge to create a new public-private government. I think that the advent of social networking has expedited this process immensely--even though it has been a trend for decades--because of exactly what you are talking about, unfettered access to data, the lifeblood of the marketer.
by forwardslash 444 days ago  ·  link
    "If you post information in a public forum you deserve to have the information abused"
In my opinion, this sentiment is indicative of our culture's general penchant for victim blaming. We see this in places like the news surrounding the Trayvon Martin shooting with people saying or implying him wearing a hoodie is to blame for his death. Woman sexually assaulted? You'll see people say or imply that the woman is to blame as well ("She was asking for it").
by dublinben 443 days ago  ·  link
I think this is a perfectly fair position on privacy. If you openly publish certain information, you simply can't consider it private any more. You might have certain rights to it, but fundamentally issues of privacy are in the users' control.
by forwardslash 443 days ago  ·  link
I would disagree and I don't think I can put it in any better words then this article.
by dublinben 443 days ago  ·  link
I disagree that there are any 'victims' in this situation. Publishing your personal information does not victimize you, especially when it is done voluntarily. I think that article is hyperbolic and full of false equivalencies. Nobody is being "objectified" by the creators of this app, which is only collecting publicly available information. This 'author' has an incredibly limited perspective of privacy, and can't understand how somebody else could have a different opinion on the matter.

I suggest you look for better coverage of this matter, if you think that TechCrunch hissy fit is the best there is. I'm sure whatever Jeff Jarvis has to say about it will be the most measured take on it you can find.



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