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comment by kleinbl00
kleinbl00  ·  93 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Solving everything wrong with America at once

Devil's advocacy:

1) an aggressive carbon tax favors manufacturing and development anywhere without aggressive carbon taxes. Raising the price of industry in the United States will largely accomplish the repression of industry and development in the United States, not on the planet.

2) Investing in particular industries will favor industries that aren't necessarily supported by the market. This is how you grow Albanian mushrooms.

3) Withdrawing from the Middle East will only create a power vacuum into which China, Russia, Turkey and Israel will jump. The combatants will not change but we will be without influence.

4) Right now the only thing keeping a lid on Wahabi extremism is the Westernization of the house of Saud. Pull away and god help you.

5) The current top marginal tax rate is 37% so that's a pretty big giveaway. Like, "Reagan only dreamed" tax cuts.

6) I think you will find that if you knock the top rate from 37% to 10% you will have substantially less evasion.

7) ...you know, I can't come up with a reason not to overturn Citizens United.

8) One in ten jobs in the United States is in healthcare. It is the fastest growing sector in the job market. What, precisely, do you anticipate replacing it with?

goobster  ·  90 days ago  ·  link  ·  

1) But we don't make anything anymore anyway. So if we tax the shit out of carbon, and invest heavily in renewable energy generation/storage technology creation and use, we improve the quality of the products on the market, which will make their way to the Manufacturing Nations eventually anyway.

2) Yeah. But we do that already. American Farmers have already received more bailouts from Trump than the banks did, and everybody is A-OK with that.

3) So-the-fuck-what? There is zilch we need from the Middle East, and we spend more money there than on ANY US program, including the Military.

4) So what? Let the Wahabbi's go crazy. The only reason they are a power feared in the world is because they US gives them ridiculous sums of money, and they use it for ill. Cut off the flow of cash (and our military equipment), and their influence will end where their toes get wet.

5) Yeah, the top marginal tax rate is 37%, but ZERO people pay that, because - if you are in that tax bracket - you have politicians in your pocket, and bank overseas. Charge them 10% AND COLLECT IT, and our tax revenues will skyrocket. Scrooge McDuck will be jealous of our piles of cash ready to be spent in America on Americans.

6) That's the hope, yeah.

7) Bad decisions are bad decisions.

8) No, because we do not have healthcare, we have sickness profiteering. If we actually had health CARE (like you provide at your clinic), then we would have adequate staffing to take care of the Boomers that are falling by the wayside today. And high-quality research into actually solvable issues. And quality nursing. And lower costs across the board, because the profit motive would be removed, and healthy humans would be the sole focus.

Yeah, I know I'm short-handing a lot of this, but fuck... it ain't hard to see how our current system is spending 99% of its time and money propping up untenable and illogical bad decisions made in the 1950-1980 timeframe.

ThurberMingus  ·  90 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    1) But we don't make anything anymore anyway. So if we tax the shit out of carbon,

We don't employ many people to make anything anymore. We make more than ever though.

Chart from here: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/07/25/most-americans-unaware-that-as-u-s-manufacturing-jobs-have-disappeared-output-has-grown/


kleinbl00  ·  90 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You're not shorthanding it, you're dismissing it through cliches. You're chanting "fuck manufacturing" as if destroying every manufacturing job hasn't had the exact cost of creating the vacuum Trump sits in at this very moment.

The Industrial Revolution created a lot of jobs for a lot of people and effectively led to the success of the middle class. It also destroyed the artisan class, led to mass unemployment and created the whole of the Victorian slum ecology that led directly to WWI. You can't just wave your hands and go "they'll get new jobs." They won't. That's why they're mad.

It's the same way you go "American Farmers have already received more bailouts from Trump than the banks did" as if this subsidy, that subsidy, they're all subsidies what does it matter? NO ONE is "A-OK with that." Farming is a fucking catastrophe right now.

I could go on down the list - you don't have any counter-arguments, you have sloganeering reflective of a willful disinterest in the mechanisms by which we've arrived at this point and the mechanisms by which we strive to continue forward. The system certainly needs tweaking, but your viewpoint is effectively "drain the swamp" with a different swamp substituted.

Cut out the cancer. Sure. BUT THE PATIENT NEEDS TO LIVE. You're in full "watch the world burn" mode because you're disinterested in thinking your thought experiment through.