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comment by Nepotist
Nepotist  ·  388 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Jordan Peterson is a weak-willed snowflake that cannot take criticism

The lawsuits make him seem like a hypocrite, but they don't invalidate the point: that the idea of criminalizing the refusal to use someone's preferred pronouns is ridiculous.




coffeesp00ns  ·  386 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    The lawsuits make him seem like a hypocrite, but they don't invalidate the point: that the idea of criminalizing the refusal to use someone's preferred pronouns is ridiculous.

No, he's still a hypocrite because you literally cannot use the laws as written to do what he says that you can. If you refuse to use someone's preferred pronouns, you're not a criminal, you're just a literal piece of human trash.

However, if you are in a position of power, such as a teacher, and you refuse to use that person's pronouns after having been corrected by the student, You not just a piece of human trash, you're also being discriminatory towards a transgender person and making them unsafe, which under Ontario law and Canadian Federal law, is likely to be a crime. That's never been tested, and there's never been a court case, so we don't know full legal arguments for both sides, but I don't think that the teacher in that situation would have a leg to stand on, legally, especially considering "free speech" as it is defined in the public conscience, is not actually protected as such in Canada. You can't just say whatever you want here.

Nepotist  ·  386 days ago  ·  link  ·  

> No, he's still a hypocrite because you literally cannot use the laws as written to do what he says that you can.

>However, if you are in a position of power, such as a teacher, and you refuse to use that person's pronouns after having been corrected by the student

How is that not affirming that his objections to the bill were in fact justified? The original objection was how they compelled the use of pronouns that the user did not agree with. He is a teacher (or was; I'm sure he's made enough money by now to where he can probably retire), so for him this was a valid concern. Or would you honestly tell me that you don't see how someone could be concerned with the prospect of being made into a criminal if a Danielle Muscato type of person came into the room and you didn't refer to them as 'she'?

coffeesp00ns  ·  380 days ago  ·  link  ·  

no, you misunderstand. What I'm saying is that the bill he's talking about is not the bill he'd be un trouble because of. He'd be in trouble because he's endangering his student's safety and discriminating against them on the basis of gender identity. It's not a "free speech" thing, it's a "endangering the life of a minority" thing.

And regarding non-passing trans people like Muscato, you just use your best guess first (which if you're not sure of someone's gender, should be "they/them" for simplicity's sake), and then if you're corrected, use the corrected pronoun. Real fucking simple.

The situation with non-passing trans people has gotten so toxic that cisgender women that don't "fit" into societal norms of what a woman should look like are now getting misgendered more often. My bass teacher for my masters degree is one such woman who has to deal with this.

Nepotist  ·  380 days ago  ·  link  ·  

>no, you misunderstand. What I'm saying is that the bill he's talking about is not the bill he'd be un trouble because of. He'd be in trouble because he's endangering his student's safety and discriminating against them on the basis of gender identity. It's not a "free speech" thing, it's a "endangering the life of a minority" thing.

He's endangering his student's safety by refusing to use their preferred pronouns? No, he isn't. No one is being put in danger by being referred to as she when they identify as he. Please explain your logic behind the assertion that someone's life is being endangered when someone else refuses to use their preferred pronouns

> And regarding non-passing trans people like Muscato, you just use your best guess first (which if you're not sure of someone's gender, should be "they/them" for simplicity's sake), and then if you're corrected, use the corrected pronoun. Real fucking simple.

I brought up Muscato because Muscato, in addition to not passing, believes that some women have penises, and that "If you're bothered by this, you can suck my dick.". I can't link the tweet because apparently I'm supposed to be a "new user" now, but just search "muscato suck my dick" to find the tweet.

Do you honestly not see why some people have issues with people like this? If Muscato had taken one of Peterson's classes, do you not see how Peterson, or many other teachers, would have an issue with someone like that wanting to be referred to as "she"? How is Muscato's life being put in danger by someone refusing to refer to him as "she"?

oyster  ·  385 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Nobody is saying you just need to know as soon as somebody walks in. The point is that teachers and doctors need to be inclusive and that means being respectful enough to at least make an effort once somebody has made it clear to you. I’ve used the wrong pronouns before which was followed by an Ah fuck since I knew it slipped out. Nobody will make me a criminal for that no matter my profession. Nobody has a problem with honest effort to be better.

His argument is basically that he wants to be an asshole and treat some of his students like shit. Being afraid that you can’t be an asshole does not warrant sympathy. At least not in Canada. I know in America they’ve got that whole “die”(I’m soooo sure) for everybodies right to be an asshole but we’re not super into that up here, never really have been.