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comment by OftenBen
OftenBen  ·  835 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Doing science right: Have there been previous human civilizations on Earth?

I submit to Hubski the site of Gobekli Tepe. Old when the Pyramids were being built, it massively changes the narrative surrounding early civilization and our ability to make mega structures.

goobster  ·  833 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Gobekli Tepe is just an earlier marker of OUR civilization.

The article is talking about earlier eons. Part of what makes the thought process interesting, is that all of the land masses have been turned over since an earlier "modern-type" civilization would have existed. So nothing they built or manufactured would have withstood continental drift, erosion, and being turned into magma and back into land again.

That's why they are looking at the carbon record. There was a big spike - similar to the industrial revolution's carbon spike - several million years ago. Which COULD be interpreted as an industrialized society developing to the level where their pollution was measurable on a planetary scale.

It's a fun thought experiment, and requires some rigorous, out of the box, scientific thinking...

wasoxygen  ·  834 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    The roughly contemporary architecture at Jericho is devoid of artistic merit or large-scale sculpture, and Çatalhöyük, perhaps the most famous Anatolian Neolithic village, is 2,000 years later.

    At present Göbekli Tepe raises more questions for archaeology and prehistory than it answers. It remains unknown how a force large enough to construct, augment, and maintain such a substantial complex was mobilized and compensated or fed in the conditions of pre-sedentary society.

historyarch  ·  831 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Klaus Schmidt, who began the excavations, noted similarities in stone tools at Gobeckli Tepe and other sites which was one of his methods for dating. (see: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/gobekli-tepe-the-worlds-first-temple-83613665/). Some of the male figures bear similarities to those found elsewhere as well. So clearly, Gobeckli Tepe was not isolated. From the Gobeckli website, the archaeologists date the most recent phase to be 9,600-8,000 BC (see" https://tepetelegrams.wordpress.com/the-research-project/ which also notes the comparison of carved figures). Dating these sites is imprecise but that could indicate only a 500 year gap which may actually be much less if estimates at Gobeckli Tepe and Çatalhöyük are off-- which is a distinct possibility.

Further, much of Gobeckli Tepe is unexcavated so it is risky to draw too many conclusions. It may have been abandoned in 9,000 or even 8,000 BC. There also may be other as yet undiscovered sites that will establish a clear line of development. Jericho and Çatalhöyük suffered devastating destruction in ancient times, there may have been much more sophisticated artistic endeavors that were destroyed, taken away or have yet to be found. Gobeckli Tepe was intentionally buried which likely means more is preserved.

I agree with everyone here that Gobeckli Tepe is fascinating, leaves us with many more questions than answers and may imply a different societal evolution than previously supposed.