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comment by kleinbl00
kleinbl00  ·  2275 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Why American men are getting less marriageable

I'm on a taxiway so this will be bereft of links, but one of the tropes routinely dragged out by the conservatives is the erosion of the family as causal in the erosion of prosperity. The liberals, on the other hand, drag out the erosion of family planning as the erosion of prosperity.

I got a kid. I had her when my wife and I were in our late 30s, living a six figure lifestyle. Some wonk pointed out on Twitter that two studies, one on job loss and one on having children, found the same economic impact; having a kid is economically equivalent to losing a job. And we were able to plan it, and we had $90k in savings, and by the time my wife was earning again we had $20k.

The more economic prowess you have, the more resilient you are to financial shocks like having children. But the less economic prowess you have, the less likely you are to factor finances into having a family. Rich people have fewer children, period.

And traditional male jobs are on the decline, and the economic costs of raising children well are increasing, and if your head knows you can't afford kids but your heart wants kids, you're going to have kids you can't afford.

But if you can plan, you sure as shit won't plan with a partner that can't help.





Isherwood  ·  2275 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I don't know how much I buy this. My wife is one of three kids. Their mom raised them for a while, while their dad worked as a teacher. Then their dad took some time off while their mom worked as a teacher. They're all well educated and, for the most part, well adjusted and they were all planned for - but based on your premise they were working -2 jobs while raising their family.

I'm thinking about my sister who, with her husband, is very well off. And yeah, I'm sure raising a kid as they know it takes a massive chunk out of their income - their kids want for pretty much nothing. But I also think there are ways to raise kids that aren't so detrimental.

I'm not trying to say kids aren't expensive, but I do think there's a bit of a fiscal boogeyman around kids, especially among the well educated.

kleinbl00  ·  2274 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think when someone shows you a profit and loss statement you should be careful about terms like whether you "buy" it or "fiscal boogeymen." We straight up lost 70 grand, yo. More than that.

Yeah. we've got friends that had kids younger, that didn't plan. Know what?

Their financial situation is hella more perilous than ours.

That's exactly the point I was making.

steve  ·  2274 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Yeah. we've got friends that had kids younger, that didn't plan. Know what?

    Their financial situation is hella more perilous than ours.

My wife and I have five kids. We started that parade back in our mid-20s. I don’t think kb is referring to me... but he might as well be. I don’t often feel like I’m in a perilous state, but I sure as hell am when it comes down to it. I’ve got more thoughts on this, but I think I should read the article first.

kleinbl00  ·  2274 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I wasn't. I don't know your situation well enough. I just know we counted pennies during the recession, while several of our friends still are.

Isherwood  ·  2274 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yeah, sorry. I wasn't trying to discredit anything. We've just started to seriously talk about starting a family and I think some unformed thoughts slipped out.

OftenBen  ·  2275 days ago  ·  link  ·  

There is also a noticeable lack of boogeyman around kids among the less-well-educated.

Isherwood  ·  2275 days ago  ·  link  ·  

What a weird donut.

OftenBen  ·  2275 days ago  ·  link  ·  

At one point, children were an asset. They are now a massive liability, by my estimation, though I admit that my viewpoint is heavily skewed.

When Vikings were sailing around generally fucking shit up, it was considered a good thing to come back from a months long voyage to find your wife pregnant by another man. He got to sleep with your wife, but you got to keep the baby. One more hand to work the farm, one more son to carry a sword, one more daughter to marry off and solidify inter-clan loyalties and alliances.

Now, be prepared to spend buxxx

Isherwood  ·  2275 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Man, I just can't buy into the only value (or primary value) of children being labor.

OftenBen  ·  2274 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Shrug. Culture shifts over time. Children used to be valued for one reason, now they are valued for different reasons, and are invested in differently.

user-inactivated  ·  2274 days ago  ·  link  ·  

A pretty recent shift, too.

Child labor is one of the main focal points of Das Kapital.