Oh, I see. You thought my commentary on the nature of higher education and its relationship with the real world wasn't good enough, but instead of engaging in a dialogue and correcting the wrong assumptions I may have made along the way, you left a "LOL" because... I guess that's how you roll. (that rhymed. my apologies) "I don't owe you squat". Yeah, I know, I know. Of course you don't. You're a strong and independent person, and you don't need me to point out that you aren't doing the conversation any favors. Thanks for stopping by, I guess, and... thanks for telling me I'm not going to be a good teacher. Not like I hear that very often in my head.
Sure, I'll bite. Any teacher who teaches his or her students how to read, understand, and apply instructions has already taught their student how to do taxes. In addition, they've also managed to teach their students the keys to success that they need in order to pass all the required state and/or Federal testing which students are pummelled with in the U.S., and the article you posted is so US centric I can't imagine you're trying to teach anywhere else. Here's the thing about taxes. They are not hard. Especially for people of low income, they basically involve filling in 3-5 numbers, which are already outlined and clearly labelled on your income documents, into a couple spaces on a single page (1040 EZ? even half page) form. It can be done in 30 minutes. What taxes are is intimidating. And they're mostly intimidating to people who haven't done them before, or haven't done them much. Say, by the way...you filed taxes yet? Cuz you act like they're mega scary, and you don't talk like you make enough money for that to be right. When you say that you want to teach students how to do taxes and etc in a course like what you describe, I think many things. First and foremost are these: 1) So you are going to do this during required class time? Thus taking away all the time that you're going to need to get your students prepared for state/federal testing? (which ensures funding to your school and also reflects on you in a yearly score that school administration will be tracking and will impact your ability to keep your job) 2) If not, so you are going to offer this as an elective? And you expect students to willingly sign up for "boring life skills" when they could do art, music, drama, programming, forensics, or shop electives? (News flash: the kids who sign up for an elective life skills class are the students who are proactive enough and already care - scratch that, already worry - enough about these topics that they don't actually need such a class) and 3) So you are going to, again, derail your students from state-wide and national metrics which they are required to meet (not to mention that their meeting of such helps them get into higher education) in order to further your moral agenda? Oh. Ok. Because it is more important that you teach kids what your personal opinion of what is Right, than you ensure that they are prepared for later grades (assuming you won't be teaching seniors in high school), later testing (besides state wide and federal standards, don't forget the SAT andor ACT and or whatever) and/or higher education or other opportunities? OK then. I don't support all the testing we do in the US or the standards we hold our students to, necessarily, but that's the system you'll be walking into as a teacher and as someone who's supposedly training to be one, you seem woefully unaware of that.
I haven't filed my taxes yet. I wouldn't even know where to plug my curiosity probe into if it weren't for the billboard advertisements saying "PAYING TAXES IS A GOOD THING SO PAY ON TIME", with a website at the bottom. That's the problem. I don't act about them as if I'm scared of filing them: I'm disturbed about yet another adult thing I wish I knew but somehow haven't even touched growing up, let alone learned. How immature do I have to be to fit into the image of what's an average adult expected to get into once I'm "of age"? I'd like to take shit I have to do as a member of a country's population more seriously than that. I don't like bullshit obscurity over things that are advertised as some of the most fundamental aspects of a citizen's life, and I'd like an easy, self-evident access to the sources of information on such matters. Would you blame me for it? So, there are two areas on my most recent utility bill. One is "fact.", implying factual usage of water, the other is "1/12", which is for... monthly payments, I guess? Alright, so I pay the "fact." amount, because that's as much as I've used resources in monetary equivalent, correct? What's the "1/12" for, then? It's much bigger than my "fact." usage, too — three times as much, in fact. Do I have to pay it, too? Do I have to pay it along with the "fact."? I could, of course, call their office and inquire about it. I could even go to the website and check out the FAQ section. Not that it has any information on the matter, much like the bill itself. So, my only option is to find a person to talk to about an issue that I'm not even supposed to have, as much as the bill's make-up makes it clear. It isn't self-evident. I can't just look that information up and get precisely the information I want to, without involving other people. Suppose something similar happens for your house payment. I'm a grown-ass man. I'd feel ashamed asking someone about taxes — which, I think, is also part of the problem. I'm supposed to know about them, and I don't, and I can't ask because of the social repercussions, nonexistent as they may actually be. Maybe it's not that big of a problem where you are, but here, social repercussions are a non-minor issue. People are afraid of asking questions on important matters and have no other easily-accessible way to learn about those. You may think I'm exaggerating. What book did you have when going through Sex Ed? Have you ever seen a comprehensive guideline to renting an apartment? Do you know which doctor to go to for every health problem you might have? I still don't know many areas, and time comes soon for me when I can no longer naively skip yearly check-ups. Fucking embarrassing. "Filing taxes" — which, in our conversation, somehow turned into euphemism for grown-ass people's activities — takes more effort than simply reading and writing, much like every other skill. Was math simply about repeating what's written on the blackboard? Of course it wasn't: it was a science of problem-solving more than it was about the numerical part of our understanding of the universe. You can't solve a problem if you don't understand what the problem is. (regret biting yet?) Ah, yes: the "already" razor. Because people who understand the importance of healthy living already exercise, so there's no point to advertising physical activity to all of those lazy-ass overworked white-collars. Because those who realize the negative effects of alcohol already don't drink much, so there's no reason to educate the alcoholics and their loved ones of what they can do to make the situation better. Because people who understand that suicide is a point of no return, so why would you even start the suicide prevention line and tell people on the bridge that they matter? Having a map is not the same as walking the territory. Your worry about the subject does not automatically translate to you knowing the subject. Knowledge and experience require data to operate from. In absence of either, your intent is just your intent, fading slowly without the oxygen. Because of course that's how electives work. Without them, students are studying for 16 hours straight. But here I am, wrecking my way into the delicate workflow of people who have, somehow, acquired enough acumen to prioritize exams over living their lives, and giving them something they might not need but would likely not regret knowing later on... Oh, hello: that's the whole educational system beyond the first few years. Come on. Antagonism, on its own, does not automatically qualify as worthy criticism. You aren't even pretending like you care about what I have to say. I'm not your enemy, but — feel free to act like it, 'cause you're an adult yourself and you can do whatever the hell you want. Tell me. Is "LOL" your usual contribution to the conversation, or was I somehow particularly unworthy in your eyes? I'm a particularly agreeable person, you see; I don't like conflicts, even with people who I can't be sure exist, and your initial stance, if I can call it that, was hurtful. Yeah, yeah, I know: "if your hackles are raised by an anonymous person on the Internet, you better GTFO". That's the kind of a person I am, though. Hubski is not a place I expect troll-like behavior from, and let's face it: that's what you acted as because your comment had no axiomatic content. Would it be simpler for my emotional equilibrium to block you and not worry about your presence in my life? I wouldn't want you to waste your time with me, either, but my calm is more important to me because I already have enough stress in my life as it is. I'm here for a reasoned conversation that would lead to either of the participants to improve through learning — which may be why I'm going into education to begin with, by the way. Do you want to partake in the same, or do you want to keep telling me how useless you think I am?Say, by the way...you filed taxes yet? Cuz you act like they're mega scary, and you don't talk like you make enough money for that to be right.
Any teacher who teaches his or her students how to read, understand, and apply instructions has already taught their student how to do taxes.
(News flash: the kids who sign up for an elective life skills class are the students who are proactive enough and already care - scratch that, already worry - enough about these topics that they don't actually need such a class)
So you are going to, again, derail your students from state-wide and national metrics
Yikes. You're quite new, and apparently very easy to upset. The way this comment reads, you're projecting strongly. Let me walk you through what I (and I assume _refugee_) read when seeing this. You have a lot of concerns about how to function as an adult, and you want someone/something to blame for your ignorance because it's just too hard/inconvenient/punishing/embarrassing to figure out alone - it's got to be taught, and you want to teach it. You mentioned previously that a lot of these topics weren't discussed in your family, so nix that source of knowledge. "Next up is the education system!" you think to yourself. "That's where I've been maligned, that's where I'll fix it!" I'll quote you directly on these next couple examples to give you an idea of how you come across. You see that? You sound whiny. You sound weird. What's your phobic deal about talking to a human being about these questions ? And if you fucking can't talk to a human being about this stuff, then why do you expect to be an authority to teach kids about it? What are you going to teach them anyway? That they have to know all of this stuff right the hell now or they're going to look like losers when they're grown up? LOL. What refugee was getting at is that it's pitiable that you think you'll ever be a resource to children on a topic about which you've got a disturbingly anti-approach. You'll be passing on latent messages of social embarrassment, perceived repercussions and victimhood, self-hating ignorance, and more to these students. What you really need to do is realize - like fucking everyone else has realized - that you learn to do these things when you need to do them. All 20-somethings struggle with W-4s, W-2s, passport applications, bills, taxes, &c., &c. for the first time(s). But unless you're very socially inept - and the course of this conversation indicates "maybe" - you learn these things eventually by asking people who know, not by pulling up your scribbled notes from an elective you blew off for easy GPA-padding in high school. Shit, I was vested for a retirement pension at 23. Did I know what that meant at the time? Fuck no. But you better believe I called Vanguard and Fidelity right away to find which plan I wanted between the two. I spoke to a real human whose job it is to educate me on these topics, and I asked them questions like a regular human would when they're ignorant about something. See, the issue with your whole outlook on this is you don't realize there's an entire industry out there already called customer service that educates people about this stuff. Get over your speaking-to-a-human-being anxiety and talk to paid (often outsourced) semi-professionals like everyone else out here in the rat race. And the reason your response only required an "LOL" from refugee is because all you need to teach your students is that if they don't know something, there are people they can contact who will answer their questions. Also, you deserve another LOL and probably a WTF for comparing high school personal finance to a suicide hotline, AA, and healthy living. Like...whaaat?? Your near-pathological anxiety around this topic is concerning. Your interest in teaching children while holding this anxiety is concerning. I don't think you'll do a good job, despite your hopes, because your instincts are based on fear and you will definitely pass that fear on, perpetuating the cycle of vicious ignorance-punishing you perceive. I hope you're more careful than that. BUT... If this is how you typically react to criticism, then I have no doubt your future school's superintendent will listen to your weirdly aggrandizing arguments and realize, even if high school finance were a good idea, you are not the person to teach it. But in the end, an under-funded public (or private) high school isn't going to invest in a class that might save it's graduates from slight embarrassment about something everyone else is just calling a toll-free 1-800 number about.I wouldn't even know where to plug my curiosity probe into
yet another adult thing I wish I knew
I'd like an easy, self-evident access to the sources of information
I can't just look that information up [...] without involving other people.
I'd feel ashamed asking someone about taxes
social repercussions
Fucking embarrassing
people's activities [...] takes more effort than simply reading and writing
So you're going on to upset me further. I've raised an issue that I think is important. You wanna discuss it? Cool. You wanna point out flaws in my reasoning? Be my guest. You wanna belittle my point of view and reduce my idea to something easily assailable so that you could feel superior to me? Be someone else's. You wrote this tirade to, I presume, put me in my place and show me the error of my ways, but all I can see is someone telegraphing the desire to mock me and deride my ideas. I don't care to sweat about being wrong, but you've made personal what never has been, and you made it about how you see it. You made some good points there, can't but admit, but the rest of it is nothing but trying to make me seem like a kid, terrified of the world and wanting to change it to both get revenge on The System and feel bigger than I am because I feel so fucking small right now. Look. You're welcome to comment on my shit and point out the flaws. You wanna do something else? Lemme save you some time, no bullshit: don't. I don't want to see your replies to anything I have to say, in public, in private or through any other medium if your goal is to reduce my point of view to some bullshit psychiatric assessment that's supposed to undermine my argument. If you continue to be disrespectful to me after that, I'll block you. Nothing personal: just mental hygiene. If you wanna talk things through, feel free to PM me.You're quite new, and apparently very easy to upset.