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comment by snoodog
snoodog  ·  2553 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Energy Star Program For Homes And Appliances Is On Trump's Chopping Block

Wikipedia summarizes the arguments for and against energy star nicely in the appliance section. I'm not entirely sure the program does anything useful except print stickers but I suppose standardized stickers are worth something too.

I've got a pretty passionate hatered for "efficient" appliances though. Energy targets seem to encourage manufacturers to shittify a product core function and create toilets that don't dispose of shit, washers that barely wash, dryers that leave clothes slightly damp... etc. I'd rather just pay the extra energy cost and have things work correctly. I guarantee the most people aren't going to choose the damp setting on their dryer if there is a dry setting, but programs like energy star encourage manufacturers to only have the damp option.

    As of early 2008, average refrigerators need 20% savings over the minimum standard. Dishwashers need at least 41% savings. Most appliances as well as heating and cooling systems have a yellow EnergyGuide label showing the annual cost of operation compared to other models. This label is created through the Federal Trade Commission and often shows if an appliance is Energy Star.[16] While an Energy Star label indicates that the appliance is more energy efficient than the minimum guidelines, purchasing an Energy Star labeled product does not always mean one is getting the most energy efficient option available. For example, dehumidifiers that are rated under 25 US pints (12 L) per day of water extraction receive an Energy Star rating if they have an energy factor of 1.2 (higher is better), while those rated 25 US pints (12 L) to 35 US pints (17 L) per day receive an Energy Star rating for an energy factor of 1.4 or higher. Thus a higher-capacity but non-Energy Star rated dehumidifier may be a more energy efficient alternative than an Energy Star rated but lower-capacity model.[17] The Energy Star program's savings calculator has also been criticized for unrealistic assumptions in its model that tend to magnify savings benefits to the average consumer.[18]

    Another factor yet to be considered by the EPA and DOE is the overall effect of energy-saving requirements on the durability and expected service life of a mass-market appliance built to a consumer-level cost standard. For example, a refrigerator may be made more efficient by the use of more insulative spacing and a smaller-capacity compressor using electronics to control operation and temperature. However, this may come at the cost of reduced interior storage (or increased exterior mass) or a reduced service life due to compressor or electronic failures. In particular, electronic controls used on new-generation appliances are subject to damage from shock, vibration, moisture, or power spikes on the electrical circuit to which they are attached. Critics have pointed out that even if a new appliance is energy efficient, any consumer appliance that does not provide customer satisfaction, or must be replaced twice as often as its predecessor contributes to landfill pollution and waste of natural resources used to construct its replacement.[19]





kleinbl00  ·  2548 days ago  ·  link  ·  

1) Dual flush toilets. You're right - the water-saving ones suck ass. The dual-flush fix every problem water efficient toilets have. I say this as someone who has had to buy three toilets recently.

2) The problem washers face these days is low-phosphorus detergent, added to reduce algal blooms in municipal waterworks. A modern, efficient front-loader kicks the shit out of anything that's come since, and if you throw in a little oxy-clean you're rawkin'. I say this as someone who has bought three washing machines in 18 months.

3) It's tough not buying a sensor dryer and they get stuff perfectly dry. I say this as someone who has bought 3 dryers in 18 months.

None of this has anything to do with energy star - this is federally mandated while energy star is a voluntary standard.

wasoxygen  ·  2548 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    this is federally mandated

What is mandatory?

kleinbl00  ·  2548 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Is that link not a funny color for you? 'cuz for me it links to a press release, which leads to the DOE's energy appliance website, which links to standards and test procedures, which gives you a pretty good plaintext interpretation of 10 CFR 430.32 (h).

Product class Combined energy factor (lbs/kWh)

i. Vented Electric, Standard (4.4 ft3 or greater capacity) 3.73

ii. Vented Electric, Compact (120V) (less than 4.4 ft3 capacity) 3.61

iii. Vented Electric, Compact (240V) (less than 4.4 ft3 capacity) 3.27

iv. Vented Gas 3.30

v. Ventless Electric, Compact (240V) (less than 4.4 ft3 capacity) 2.55

vi. Ventless Electric, Combination Washer-Dryer 2.08

user-inactivated  ·  2552 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I've got a pretty passionate hatered for "efficient" appliances though. Energy targets seem to encourage manufacturers to shittify a product core function and create toilets that don't dispose of shit, washers that barely wash, dryers that leave clothes slightly damp... etc. I'd rather just pay the extra energy cost and have things work correctly. I guarantee the most people aren't going to choose the damp setting on their dryer if there is a dry setting, but programs like energy star encourage manufacturers to only have the damp option.

Additionally, if you have to double flush or run the dryer for another 15 minutes, it kind of defeats the original purpose, cause now you've probably used more resources than what was originally saved. Maybe. I dunno. I'm not an engineer.