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comment by mk
mk  ·  2604 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: The National Divorce

I worry that we are headed towards revolution. This country is in a fit of spasms, and the rule of law is being pushed towards the precipice.

The part of this piece that rings true, is that Trump's election represents something ugly that is happening in the US. People are fast losing faith in the system, and the conflicts are breaching cultural norms with increasing frequency and greater amplitude.

There are millions of people that will follow Trump into a hell built on contradiction.



JTHipster  ·  2604 days ago  ·  link  ·  
This comment has been deleted.
user-inactivated  ·  2604 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Curious: What unified front would provide said revolution. Inertia is a strong force. We have a system in place already that holds the country together. I think the adage is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." If anything is wrong here, then I'd also like to think it's the velocity with which government as a whole has approached getting with the modern age (cybersecurity, surveillance, what have you). Maybe I'm thinking too large a scale when you mention revolution, yet when an article like this goes out, there is no major platform it can stand to in order to reach an audience to call for action.

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mk  ·  2604 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I don't imagine a revolutionary war, so much as a descent into oppression and insurgency that plays out over the course of many years. I imagine it would start with a breakdown of democratic politics in some locales, and then a sympathetic permissiveness and eventual defense from the national level.

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user-inactivated  ·  2604 days ago  ·  link  ·  

In that case, bfx touched upon some protests without marketable results:

    Occupy Wall Street, Black Lives Matter, No Dakota Access Pipeline, Women's March, Rally to Restore Sanity and/or Fear, etc. etc

If your idea is that these could easily be predecessors to developing a conscious civil unrest (leading to said scenarios), then the possibility we're chugging in that direction is more than valid to me. Excuse my naivety, but 'in a perfect world' the ideal is the constitution's "fluidity" would allow for said reform over time if that were to occur.

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mk  ·  2603 days ago  ·  link  ·  

To be clear, I am concerned that locales that lean hard to the right might interfere with local judiciary actions and elections, and that it won't be discouraged. Then, when opponents on the left try to intervene, they will be targeted, and this cycle will continue and amplify.

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thenewgreen  ·  2604 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I worry that we are headed towards revolution
That's scary stuff. The question is, do you stay and try to right the ship or do you abandon ship? You have the means and wherewithal to leave, many do not. Does your affinity for your homeland supersede your desire to raise your child(ren) in the most ideal of circumstances?

These are the questions I'm wrestling with.

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ButterflyEffect  ·  2604 days ago  ·  link  ·  

What can you even do to right the ship?

What kind of success have the following protests/movements actually seen?

Occupy Wall Street, Black Lives Matter, No Dakota Access Pipeline, Women's March, Rally to Restore Sanity and/or Fear, etc. etc...I mean, hell, we're to the point where the Texas Legislature is pushing through legislation affecting police departments which is opposed by sheriffs and police chiefs. I feel powerless to do anything about the state of this country, because I don't have $100,000 to throw at buying a member of congress.

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thenewgreen  ·  2604 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    What can you even do to right the ship?
I don't think anything immediate can be done. It will have to be slow and systemic. The process that brought us here was also slow and systemic. All the things you mentioned, "Occupy Wall Street, Black Lives Matter, No Dakota Access Pipeline, Women's March, Rally to Restore Sanity and/or Fear," are all great things that should continue to occur. But what I think has been sorely missing from all of the attempts to protest and show a joint effort to "resist," is the use of economic boycott.

We saw just a small glimpse of what it can do with the Ivanka Trump/Nordstrum kerfuffle. Imagine that on a larger scale. Imagine corporations being afraid to support trump and the GOP. Imagine funding drying up for politicians from corporate donors. Imagine a well designed, concerted effort to get 50 million consumers in lock-step? That would move the needle. That's whats needed.

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ButterflyEffect  ·  2604 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I really don't want to come across as a contrarian, as I'm interested in this discussion and your opinion. One example of an economic boycott would be against the state of North Carolina following their Public Facilities Privacy & Security Act.

Here is a likely incomplete list of figures and organizations boycotting the state. In total, I have seen figures ranging from three hundred million to four hundred million dollars in cost to the state. Yet, it doesn't seem to have made much of a difference. We'll see what the reaction of Wells Fargo is as the city of Seattle divests three billion dollars over financing the Dakota Access Pipeline. But I doubt it will amount to anything.

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thenewgreen  ·  2604 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It made a difference. It's the reason the governor lost the election. Republicans in the state voted against him. That happened.

Still, the list you are providing is from corporate interests, which is great and is a start. But when actual individuals augment their consumer behaviors in accordance with their political beliefs, stuff could get done. It would take massive mobilization and a leader. All of those events you listed lacked one thing, a clear and definitive leader. Movements used to have leaders. "Every circle needs a center."

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ButterflyEffect  ·  2604 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    But when actual individuals augment their consumer behaviors in accordance with their political beliefs, stuff could get done

Hmm. There's a Freakonomics episode about this exact topic. And a paper by a few economics professors on The Effect of Socially Activist Investment Policies on the Financial Markets: Evidence from the South African Boycott*. Unfortunately there's not much research or heavy analysis on the effects of boycotts, but there are some articles on the effect of the boycott on Chick-Fil-A following their opposition to same-sex marriage.

    DIERMEIER: There was some kind of casual looking at the numbers at this point, and what, from what we can tell just from looking at that is that the initial boycott, didn’t have much of an impact on Chick-fil-A. In some cases there were reports that sales went up and so forth, which is consistent with this movement-countermovement story.

Again, leaderless movements, but with a lot of press coverage and visibility. I have some reading to do, but the seed of "how do we know our boycotts work" has already been planted.

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mk  ·  2604 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I would probably stay. It would take a lot for me to leave.

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thenewgreen  ·  2604 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I can't decide if that's admirable or not?

As you know, I have a great admiration for my grandfathers. Both of them immigrated to the US from hard circumstances. One from post WW2 Germany and the other from an impoverished Mexico. Should they have stayed to try and be part of a positive change?

I think my grandparents would be proud of me for finding a better situation. Unlike ButterflyEffect, I don't think we are at the point where nothing can be done. I don't think that violent revolution is imminent. But I do think it's worth considering an exit strategy for my family. Lots to consider. 2017 is gonna be a year for the history books on a global/national level and on a personal level.

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