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comment by johnnyFive
johnnyFive  ·  2682 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: FiveSplaining: Firearms (Interest Measuring)

The cliche is that we're an independent bunch, and generally prefer to handle problems ourselves rather than involve the legal authorities. Some of it too is that there are still a lot of people who hunt regularly, both for sport and as a necessary source of food. This has traditionally been done with guns. It wasn't that long ago that high school kids could leave guns in their cars outside if they were going hunting after the school day, although this is no longer the case in most places.

Another example. One of my aunts taught high school in a very rural part of my state. She knew not to bother planning any significant lesson for the first day of dear season, because 95% of her students wouldn't be in school that day. The start of hunting season is an unofficial holiday in a lot of places.

But it depends where you go. You can have someone from New York City or Boston who has no connection with guns whatsoever, but then someone out in upstate New York or New Hampshire who has hunted since he or she was a child. While I've never hunted, I grew up hearing stories from my dad and my uncle about how they used to go hunting with my grandfather all the time, starting when they were pretty young. The degree that we own guns relative to other parts of the world is also somewhat overblown; plenty of people still hunt in Canada and the UK, for example.

So as further cliche, guns are just more a part of daily life here. It's far from unusual for people to learn to shoot while they're still kids, and it becomes almost a right of passage in some places. I'm going to teach my daughter to shoot when she's old enough, and she'll learn The Four Rules even younger.





user-inactivated  ·  2682 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I'm going to teach my daughter to shoot when she's old enough, and she'll learn The Four Rules even younger.

It makes sense that in a society where firearms are so prevalent, you'd want to teach your children to handle them properly. An instinct inside me says that it may not be a good idea to teach a child shooting because it somehow propagates the desire to shoot or even violence, but rationally, I understand that it's much better to let the kid know what she's doing when a dangerous tool ends up in her hands.

My lack of understanding - and a pinch of disagreement with the idea of gun prevalence - stem from the fact that in Russia and the former Soviet Union countries, much like the rest of the world, firearms aren't as prominent or nearly as frequently appearing. Sure, guns exist, but they're restricted to people whom you would expect to handle one: the police, the army, paramilitary and home defence services, - and young boys tend to look up to people who own the firearms with awe. In other words, it's just "not my thing"; I don't understand it because I haven't touched it (the culture of gun ownership) personally, even though I understand the feeling of power that comes with handling it (the gun). I wonder what it feels like and what people who own guns feel about the guns themselves and the culture.

johnnyFive  ·  2681 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    It makes sense that in a society where firearms are so prevalent, you'd want to teach your children to handle them properly.

That's basically my thinking, plus I want her to have the skills to use a gun in self-defense if she should choose to. But also, I want her to know what is and isn't safe in case a friend has parents that are irresponsible gun owners.

    I wonder what it feels like and what people who own guns feel about the guns themselves and the culture.

To me, at least, it's a reflection of a sense of responsibility. Defensive gun usage happens more often than people realize, I think, and I also believe that those of us with the resources to own guns and be trained with them have a responsibility to do so.

user-inactivated  ·  2680 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Defensive gun usage happens more often than people realize

But doesn't it happen because of guns so present in the society (rather than by necessity)? And, on the flipside, doesn't offensive gun usage happen disproportionately more in the US for the same reason?

johnnyFive  ·  2680 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Sort of, but this gets to be a little chicken-and-egg. The main problem though is that assumes that the absence of guns would in turn mean lower murder rates (and there's evidence that this isn't so. In addition, we've seen in this country all too well what happens when you try to ban something that a lot of people want. All we'd do is end up with a black market for guns. Brazil is another good example, with much greater restrictions on ownership than in the U.S., but their murder rate is far higher.

user-inactivated  ·  2680 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Brazil is another good example, with much greater restrictions on ownership than in the U.S., but their murder rate is far higher.

Brazil also has astonishingly high rates of corruption, and six percent of its population lives in slums squarred which have their own special police units because they're so much worse than a typical US ghetto. Suffice it to say that I, a Russian, am saying that Brazil has problems with their national mentality. If I had to guess, the murder rate is so high not because of gun restrictions and the ensuing black market spree - it's because of how poor living there is that people have to resort to manslaughter, particularly in gang and drug wars.

The problem, I think, is not that people want guns: they don't want to have them gotten rid of by an external force - the government, in this case - without considering whether it may actually be a good idea. I'm sure black markets will exist - it's not like they don't now - but they're a crime whether or not gun ownership is restricted in any degree. Maybe fewer people will commit suicide if they don't have immediate access to firearms, though: though I can't provide any studies (which is poor etiquette for me, but I hope you'll forgive the transgression this time: it's been a tough evening), it seems evident from what I've read so far that lacking immediate solution to how to commit suicide dissuades people from going for it. Maybe there will be fewer accidental shootings and even accidental murders by people who were just messing around with a tool they didn't realize the danger of.

You may argue that education will improve situations like the latter, and you may even be correct. It doesn't seem realistic to rely on people's good will at such a scale, but perhaps things can be done; then the question becomes whether you're willing to accept whatever accidents there are left, especially if someone you care about might become a victim. You may argue something about suicide prevention, as well.

What can't be escaped is the fact that gun ownership is innate to the culture of the US, and trying to just take it from people will, indeed, result in something worse than one might naively expect. One might even argue for holding onto a long-term decision to wedge guns away from the culture because it may work, unlike giving up after seeing no results afters months of restriction, though that will not be me. I'm just trying to critically assess your views in hope of understand what the hell is it with the guns in your country.

johnnyFive  ·  2680 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    If I had to guess, the murder rate is so high not because of gun restrictions and the ensuing black market spree

I'm not saying it is, but it's an example of a situation where stronger gun laws haven't helped.

If you have a chance, check out the study I linked in my previous post. It has data to suggest the exact opposite of your conclusions.