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comment by Vozka

Yes, I have, and I found the sound unnatural like I said. I actually do most of my listening on in a near-field ambiophonics configuration because it makes sense in my acoustically bad room and it sounds great, I'm planning to build a pair of Synergy horns for the same reason, but I recognize that it is a compromise.

  
Like you said, measuring and listening are two different things. Acoustically dead rooms may make sense in a studio, but the overwhelming majority of people do not prefer them at home, this has been repeatedly proven (but you reminded me of this, which was afaik written by Toole, and may apply to you ). The quality of stereo reproduction is not just about hearing the most details but also about the illusion of space and that is better achieved with controlled room interaction.

  
What you're saying about headphones, again, is silly, and simplifies the reality extremely. I have built a few headphone prototypes and getting them sound right is much more difficult than building decent speakers, which, to a certain point, has been solved.

  
I have no idea what you're trying to say about me mentioning Linkwitz and Toole. Are you arguing that agreeing with you, a completely unknown person on the internet, whose experience is completely different than mine, makes more sense than agreeing with people whose life-long research (that everyone can read about) says something that is mostly consistent with my own experience? I don't see how Bose is relevant here, are you saying that what Toole and Linkwitz designed sounds like shit as well, or do you think they're a part of the audiophile woo community?

  
(also, I'd argue that Bose is kinda genious because he was obviously in it to make money, not to push audiophile standards, and boy did he succeed. And there's nothing inherently bad about using paper as a base material for cones, there's a reason it's still used in most pro drivers.)




kleinbl00  ·  2876 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Here's our fundamental disagreement:

You're arguing, objectively, that I am objectively wrong... based on subjective information.

I'm counter-arguing (you started this) that you are objectively wrong... based on objective information.

When I present you with objective arguments, you respond with subjective points.

When I point out that your arguments are subjective, you double down on the subjectivity as if it were objective.

Look - I will never convince you that spraying the back wall in the interest of "better sound" is a bad idea. You have subjectively decided that it's brilliant, and are immune to objective argument. What I'm saying about headphones isn't silly, it's fluid mechanics. Yes - measuring and listening are two different things. Measuring is objective. Listening is subjective. I NEVER said people like listening in acoustically dead rooms - I said that the music sounds great in acoustically dead rooms. The rooms sound fucking spooky. Then you throw some link from diyaudio.com at me after I already threw Linkwitz back in your face. I'll repeat: the preponderance of speakers ever made are directional. The ones that aren't are weird-ass audiophile bullshit. That's not in my opinion. That's physics.

But that's an objective statement against a subjective opinion. I will never convince you that MBLs sound like shit. I don't want to. You are welcome to believe they sound like angels farting and it's no skin off my nose.

SUBJECTIVELY?

They sounded about as good as EVID 6's which, in my subjective opinion, are about the worst outdoor speaker I've ever had the misfortune of listening to.

And I put about 90 Toa H-4s in omnidirectional arrays in the Seattle Tacoma International Airport.

Vozka  ·  2875 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You can't seriously think that "it sounds like shit" and "it splashes high frequency all over the back wall" are objective arguments about sound quality while discounting anything I say as subjective without actually responding, that's bizzare. Judging by your reasoning about room interactions and some hypotetical closed headphones that don't exist, you obviously know nothing about much research in psychoacoustics (have you at least read about constant directivity?), or the reality of home speaker design.

  
(and I'm saying that as someone who despises audiophile bullshit, doesn't own omni speakers or any expensive hifi really and is not planning to buy any)
kleinbl00  ·  2875 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I said "subjective" twice, yo. Once in all caps italics.

At least do me the courtesy of reading the keyboard-smashing stuff.