And with that ladies and gents, I filter #sillyseason and forget about national politics for another 4 years as best I can.
Vote out your incumbents, if you vote.
I would argue that both major parties committed to a single candidate each is the end of "silly season" and the beginning of "deadly serious season." 'member back when it was Hilary Clinton vs. "whoever the Republicans can scrape up?" And then Bernie Sanders (who?) decided to get off his porch and terrorize the heir apparent with all the independent Vermont socialism he could scrape up? And then we had a year of actual, honest-to-god Democratic debate about the heart and soul of the party? Count your fuckin' blessings, man. In April 2015 this was gonna be the "all Hilary, all the time" show. Instead it's energized an entire generation into giving a fuck about politics. DON'T FUCKIN' STOP NOW. It's funny how hip it is to hate on Hilary. Hip like this guy. Hip like this guy. Hip like this guy - fuck, how much money do you think he's made in his life by hating on the clintons? So before you get all pox-on-both-your-houses about it, recognize that it's not like your team lost. That could still happen.
The crazy thing is that none of these Clinton haters seem to realize that they're towing the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy line in lock step. Bernie Sanders himself made a point at the first debate to mention that he thought the whole email thing is tired and worn out, and we should move on. "She's a crook. The emails!" Clinton isn't perfect, and I'll always have a hard time forgiving her for her Iraq war vote. But it's ridiculous for anyone to claim that Trump is Sanders' heir apparent. Sorry all these otherwise intelligent people have let Sean Hannity infect their brains.
I've signed three petitions to put things on the local/county ballot this upcoming year, and debated a person on why I wasn't going to sign another one that was presented to me. Voted in local elections last year and plan on continuing with all of the above. Yay being (somewhat, barely) politcally active.DON'T FUCKIN' STOP NOW.
I think that if we didn't have Ron Wyden and Jeff Merkley in the Senate the nation would be worse off than it is. I can't imagine a new senator being one tenth as effective at trying to battle back the the survalince state as Wyden. Merkley has stood up for progressive issues, against survalince and been one of a few points if light when it comes to making better trade treaties. We all know Earl Blumenauer is in the pocket of the bycical lobby but damn if that bow tie isn't fetching. Notice the bycical pin? It's not skull and bones, but they own him. The alternative transportation lobbys pockets are deep and subtle. You should read his wiki sometime, it's a laundry list of odious do gooding. I suppose we could vote him out but the damage is already done, we aren't going to tear out all these bike lanes and efficient public transport facilities that he secured with federal transportation grants. Your right, let's stop this guy before he goes and make our lives better some more, before he tries to get more poor people safe water, counciling for people on Medicare who are dying (I mean common, they gonna die, why waste the filthy lucre), before he actually convinces people to act in global warming, or protect places like New Orleans (if he had had his way we never would have been able to clean that city up) and oh so many other things. U mad bro? Don't let your anger blind you to your self interest. Maybe in whatever backwoods hillbillyville you live in there are nothing but crooks. We have had our share of bad politicians here, but they mostly get run out of town based on our values and their merits I bet you're for term limits as well...
I have an unhealthy dearth of self-interest. Edit because this made me angry. This is the great swindle cgod. 'My guy isn't a crook! It's all those other guys!' No, it's all of them. They are ALL complicit. Every single one of them is personally responsible for perpetuating the bullshit that blocks up the house and senate with nonsense and corruption.
How many times a year do you contact your representatives? How many times a year have you called them before a vote? How often have you been pleased to see which way your representative has voted on an issue that matters to you? Do you know what sub committees your representative is on and what issues they are championing? I call, I watch, and I'm generally pleased. I don't like my representatives because they are mine, I like them because they seem to generally reflect my values and vote the way I'd like on issues that I think are important (not every time). If I could get rid of half of my city council I would. I've given to the opponents of people I don't think should be in office. I give to the guys I think should be in office. Getting rid of lawmakers you don't like to get another set of guys you don't like isn't worth much. Keeping lawmakers who you know have generally done a good job Is a good thing. I know who I'm supporting because I pay attention, I know because I talk people who pay a lot closer attention than I can afford to. Take some internet time and tell me why I shouldn't support Ron Wyden, Jeff Merkley, or Earl Blumenauer. I'll be interested to hear what you come up with, angry at the system isn't a reason I'll accept. I've been more than happy to see governor Kitzhaber resign in scandal, I didn't vote for him and couldn't believe that anyone did. My least favorite councilmen faces a run off, I voted for him last time but this time I'm giving to his opponent. The Mayor chose not to run because he fucked shit up and the guy who won isn't my guy but he might not be a bad mayor, I welcome the change. These are all people I'm glad are gone or might be gone soon for good reasons. I know the reasons. The reasons aren't because I'm disenchanted and angry because I just realized that politics is messy, dissatisfying and full of dirty games. I knew that shit already and am glad that there are a few people playing the game in what I believe is my favor. I hope all the bums you want to see go in your neck of the woods get kicked. Maybe one of my representatives gets to move up in committee seniority and craft some legislation that benefits me, my state, my neighbors and represents my values better than what ever asshole it is that represents who you would have pushed out. Hopefully it's the reward that we get for electing people who do a basically decent job. It's upsetting when you realize that politics sucks, is unfair and dirty, that corruption lurks beneath so much of it. I've been represented by and am currently being represented by some politicians I loath, who I think are corrupt. I'm being represented by a group of politicians at the national level that I think are pretty good. At it's roots there is a great deal about the system that is unfair and many influences that corrupt good governance. Get rid of them all is a silly and reactionary response to a system that will always be disatisfying and laced with some corruption. It's fine if you want to call your temper tantrum a solution, it's what's pushing Trump toward the finish line. He should be your guy by the way, his hands have never been tainted by the filth of elected office.
For what it's worth I thought cgod made a very genuine case and you dismissed it out of convenience. I see one person in this thread that has seemed to put in some genuine time and effort outside of platitudes. I dig you both, but fwiw being informed and angry is different than being angry. "They all suck" is easy to say when you know none of them.
If Hubski wants a detailed breakdown of the various corruption schemes, graft and general anti-social tendencies of the various elected officials of this country I would be happy to make a project of the endeavor and oblige. Convenience? Not quite. Expediency, definitely.
1. I have no idea what Hubski wants, I speak for myself alone. 2. I just wanted to point out that from a "substance" standpoint the conversation wasn't equally weighted. 3. Expediency is the excuse of the convenienced. 4. I'm no fan of congress, but I know enough to realize that they're not all awful humans. There are some good men and women trying their damndest in an awful system. They're possibly the exception. 5. I also know cgod well enough now to know that he's likely not a fan of congress either but is a fan of making informed statements. I can trust (after years of conversations, often debates with him) that he's done his homework. 6. Hope you're having a great weekend.
Thanks for the kind words Green. Honestly from Lets say you are preoccupied with the problems of policing in america and your solution is to shoot all the cops, or you know that gays are spreading AIDS and your solution is to round them all up into camps If that is your position than expect to be treated as dangerous or ignorant. I'm going to be reluctant to take anything Ben has to say about politics henceforth with any seriousness. His most persuasive argument has been that Ron Wyden voted for the patriot act and I think that it's a pretty weak argument condemn a mans entire legislative career. I'd take a principled argument against anyone who voted for the war in Iraq but the forces at play during the patriot act vote were pretty persuasive and few knew the extent to which the act would be abused. He never seriously engaged my position and he barely supported his own with anything more than emotivism fueled by anger. My own solution to solving the dysfunction in the U.S. goverment is more extreme than his by order of magnitude and is unlikely to happen by about the same margin. I don't go around expounding on it to others and slapping them down when they don't take it seriously, I pretty much keep that silly shit to myself.Because they are crooks who serve to prop up other crooks.
I had nothing but contempt for his position but I didn't conduct myself that way until it went a few rounds.
My own solution to solving the dysfunction in the U.S. goverment is more extreme than his by order of magnitude and is unlikely to happen by about the same margin
When you're ready to share this, shout out to me. I'm intrigued.
No, but you were holding him up as a paragon of political virtue. He is complicit in voting in favor of one of the most insidiously tyrannical and fear mongering pieces of legislation to ever be passed by a democratic body. He could have chose not to, didn't.
Only one senator voted against the patriot act. There was a feeling at the time something must be done now. It was the something and it was time to vote. There were many disatisfying things about the act at the time and the following administrations would abuse it in creative ways that very few imagined. Wyden has fought harder to reign in the excesses of that act than just about anyone. I generally think he is a pretty virtuous official. I don't like the some of his recent votes on trade but I do like that he supported (failed) changes in the international trade regime. Virtue isn't always what I think is best. Everyone is going to balance out the dangers of terrorism or necessity of a trade deal differently from me. I think he's tries hard to make this a better union and think he serves his constituents well. It's almost impossible in this state to make everyone happy when federal policy impacts things like water rights, farm policy, and timber policy. I think he's worked hard to pass legislation that offers something for all stake holders in federal legislation over these things. He could just pander to the left and leave the farmers and lumber interest shit out of luck but he's worked hard not to do those kinds of things. If voting for the first Patriot Act mean that you can't be a Senator than I guess your only solution is vote everyone out. I think what you'd see happen after you got rid of them is special interest runing the table. The resulting legislation would be a wishlist of the most powerful lobbies and the most entrenched bureaucracies. When you don't know jack shit out intelligence you are going to be pretty malleable when the CIA comes to tell you how things work and what they need, same thing with complex trade policy.
What a title... That's the only reason I'm looking to the booth. If either kleinbl00 or rd95 would be so kind to link (I think) rd's prediction of the election's outcome? klein linked to me while I was under Ay-Nawn, but I couldn't quick search it for reference. I really liked the notion of Bernie's ultimate affect on the election being motivating younger people to get back into the voting system and bring out the younger people to the polls as a demographic, regardless. At least, that's what I thought was part of the post. Oye. Either way, it was a quality comment I'd like to store away for myself in the future. Many thanks in advance if anyone can find/link it.Vote out your incumbents, if you vote.