So, how is what you're proposing different? Non believers have to abide by your bronze age mythology instead of Islams.
Non believers are protected by the very laws that, mostly Christians, enshrined. You can even Google that one. The concept of "tolerance" and "equality" are based in mostly Christian concepts of the same. Even though you may not like it, these are "foundational" to the very tolerance you claim to espouse. Here they are" Galatians 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is [fn]neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Even though it says "in Christ Jesus" it is a concept of equality and was used as a foundation in Western Civilization Law. The second: Romans 12:18 - If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. This is a statement of tolerance in both religious terms (tolerance of other Denomination other than the Church of England), but even those of contrary beliefs such as atheism. That is a matter of factual history in our Founding Documents and the records of the early days of our "Representative Republic".
To even equate Sharia Law with the long-time foundations of Western law and history is a nonsensical equation or comparison. We don't, and never did, prohibit women from talking to a man in public. We NEVER, prohibited women from being in the presence of a man absent of their husband or relative. NEVER, in modern days, prohibit women from driving cars, or getting an education. We, as a country, did not permit slaves or women from voting, but we, as a society, corrected that via the Constitutional Amendment process, (not judicial caveat or the likes). This case, HB2 , is an open, common sense solution. What you surmise (though misplaced) is that they are the same, and they are NOT. Do we execute people of homosexuality or transgender in this country - NO? Do we deny employment from homosexuals in this country - NO! For you to allude that the US is the same as Sharia law is a ludicrous comparison and bares no justification is history or US law.
Re separation of church and state, here is T. Jeff exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church and State.” Letter to the Danbury Baptists, January 1, 1802 “[E]very one must act according to the dictates of his own reason, and mine tells me that civil powers alone have been given to the President of the U.S. and no authority to direct the religious exercises of his constituents.” Letter to Rev. Samuel Miller, January 23, 1808 “The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” Notes on the State of Virginia , 1781 – 1785“… I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free
However, since you quote Jefferson, let’s take some stories from the Monticello website on his religious beliefs and life beliefs: https://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/jeffersons-religious-beliefs
Glad to, they only bolster my point that Jefferson saw that government was for making laws and not for supporting or trumpeting religion, in any way. You think T Jeff would want creationism taught in school? --- In summation, he has always stuck me as a man that was unparalleled in his ability to be forward thinking. The fact that many people see what the founders set forth as concrete would seem baffling to Jefferson. He knew that he couldn't foretell what was to come. I think of the following quote often these days in regard to so many policy debates, especially "the right to bear arms," It is so obvious to me why christian conservatives see the constitution as gospel and the founders as gods, they're believers. There is an inherent need to "believe." I came across an interesting quote from Bukowski recently, "The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence." -Jefferson wasn't stupid... but we're living in a world full of stupid right now, which is scary stuff. Regarding Jefferson and religion. It seems to me that Jefferson adored Christ's teachings but didn't see Christ as a "god" or a "miracle worker." That stuff was silly to him. The teachings were enough. Regarding separation of church and state, his statements support that he saw governments role to be one of ensuring harm wasn't done to individuals but saw no harm in someone believing, not believing etc. That the government would teach or promote any particular belief system seems counter to what he would have wanted. He was a progressive, extremely intelligent fella. Imagine what he would think about politics today?"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. ... Reason and free enquiry are the only effectual agents against error
He also rejected the idea of the divinity of Christ, but as he writes to William Short on October 31, 1819, he was convinced that the fragmentary teachings of Jesus constituted the "outlines of a system of the most sublime morality which has ever fallen from the lips of man."
-My goodness, I wish more "christians" were like Jefferson in their approach. It's not the miracles, the eucharist, the father, son and holy spirit that matter. IT'S THE TEACHINGS. THE LESSONS HE PUT FORTH! Man, oh man, how different would the world be if it were the teachings and the philosophy of Jesus Christ we focused on instead of the death and "resurrection" of him? But fear fills pews and the promise of eternal life conveniently answers the oldest question. he recognized the novelty of his own religious beliefs. On June 25, 1819, he wrote to Ezra Stiles Ely, "I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know."
"The question [w]hether one generation of men has a right to bind another. . . is a question of such consequences as not only to merit decision, but place also among the fundamental principles of every government. . . . I set out on this ground, which I suppose to be self-evident, 'that the earth belongs in usufruct to the living'
-Read that last bit over and over again to yourself. It seems simple, but it's pretty damned amazing. It takes a great mind to be that forward thinking and humble. We all need to appreciate our founders, but we tend to make "gods" out of them and gospel out of their work.
Yes, as most Diests would; no question. As to the "Wall of Separation", his intent (and the backdrop and meaning) was for a government NOT to endorse one particular sect or denomination thus establishing a state sponsored religion like the Church of England. He was also an ardent supporter of the "free exercise thereof" which is increasingly being restricted by the State sponsored religion of atheism and agnosticism. Atheism, in the strictest sense of the word, is a religion in itself with MAN as the object of worship ( I am the sole determinant of right and wrong and I am an end unto myself). Jefferson would never agree with the modern day "tyranny" of imposing government sponsored censorship and imposition of anti- religious values on the "free exercise" of those religious values as we see happening in the courts and government administrative state entities as we see in today's political climate. There is another post in the Hubski newsletter about the "intolerance of the left" ( by a left leaning person) that is appropriate in this setting. In concluding, many focus only on Jefferson for historical context, but forget the other 55 individuals responsible for our founding. It seems we "pick and choose" which ones we want to quote in order to uphold our personal world view instead of taking in the whole body of history and evidence that might be contradict ice to Jefferson's personal beliefs. He, by the way, was an ardent "church goer" which, many times, is completely left out of the narrative . Records of Thomas Jefferson's church-going habits are far from complete. However, evidence does exist of his involvement with and attendance at local churches throughout his life. His accounts record donations to a number of different churches in Philadelphia, Washington, D.C., and in Charlottesville.4 As a young man, Jefferson served as a vestryman in Fredericksville Parish (Albemarle County).5 Margaret Bayard Smith, in her memoir The First Forty Years of Washington Society, recalled: "During the first winter, Mr. Jefferson regularly attended service on the sabbath-day in the humble church. The congregation seldom exceeded 50 or 60, but generally consisted of about a score of hearers. He could have had no motive for this regular attendance, but that of respect for public worship, choice of place or preacher he had not, as this, with the exception of a little Catholic chapel was the only church in the new city. The custom of preaching in the Hall of Representatives had not then been attempted, though after it was established Mr. Jefferson during his whole administration, was a most regular attendant. The seat he chose the first sabbath, and the adjoining one, which his private secretary occupied, were ever afterwards by the courtesy of the congregation, left for him and his secretary."6 Henry S. Randall, who interviewed Jefferson's family members for his three-volume Life of Thomas Jefferson, claimed that Jefferson "attended church with as much regularity as most of the members of the congregation - sometimes going alone on horseback, when his family remained at home."7
Yes, the letter to the Danbury Baptists is taken way out of context today. It NEVER was made to construct a "censorship of religious expression" in either private or public settings. It's main construct was to say that a governmental body should not show preference (in this case one denomination over another which would dictate a "state sponsored establishment") to one particular body of believers as did the Church of England (and persecuted all who differed or dissented). This was one of the main premises of finding the "New World" and to establish religious freedom (not banning religion in the public sector). This premise is supported by over 150 years of both public displays and case law. So, to use this as an "edict to restrict" public religious expression is would have been anathema to the Founders. The same people who safeguarded those expressions in the First Amendment for both believers and non-believers and to allow other religions to practice in our country were mostly religious people (mainly Christians). There was only one Deist who signed the Declaration and two that contributed to the Constitution. They are: Religious Affiliation of the Signers of the Declaration of Independence Religious Affiliation # of signers % of signers Episcopalian/Anglican 32 57.1% Congregationalist 13 23.2% Presbyterian 12 21.4% Quaker 2 3.6% Unitarian or Universalist 2 3.6% Catholic 1 1.8% TOTAL 56 100% Name of Signer State Religious Affiliation Charles Carroll Maryland Catholic Samuel Huntington Connecticut Congregationalist Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist William Williams Connecticut Congregationalist Oliver Wolcott Connecticut Congregationalist Lyman Hall Georgia Congregationalist Samuel Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist John Hancock Massachusetts Congregationalist Josiah Bartlett New Hampshire Congregationalist William Whipple New Hampshire Congregationalist William Ellery Rhode Island Congregationalist John Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian George Walton Georgia Episcopalian John Penn North Carolina Episcopalian George Ross Pennsylvania Episcopalian Thomas Heyward Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian Thomas Lynch Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian Arthur Middleton South Carolina Episcopalian Edward Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian Francis Lightfoot Lee Virginia Episcopalian Richard Henry Lee Virginia Episcopalian George Read Delaware Episcopalian Caesar Rodney Delaware Episcopalian Samuel Chase Maryland Episcopalian William Paca Maryland Episcopalian Thomas Stone Maryland Episcopalian Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopalian Francis Hopkinson New Jersey Episcopalian Francis Lewis New York Episcopalian Lewis Morris New York Episcopalian William Hooper North Carolina Episcopalian Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian John Morton Pennsylvania Episcopalian Stephen Hopkins Rhode Island Episcopalian Carter Braxton Virginia Episcopalian Benjamin Harrison Virginia Episcopalian Thomas Nelson Jr. Virginia Episcopalian George Wythe Virginia Episcopalian Thomas Jefferson Virginia Episcopalian (Deist) Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist) Button Gwinnett Georgia Episcopalian; Congregationalist James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyterian Joseph Hewes North Carolina Quaker, Episcopalian George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker, Episcopalian Thomas McKean Delaware Presbyterian Matthew Thornton New Hampshire Presbyterian Abraham Clark New Jersey Presbyterian John Hart New Jersey Presbyterian Richard Stockton New Jersey Presbyterian John Witherspoon New Jersey Presbyterian William Floyd New York Presbyterian Philip Livingston New York Presbyterian James Smith Pennsylvania Presbyterian George Taylor Pennsylvania Presbyterian Benjamin Rush Pennsylvania Presbyterian The signers of the Declaration of Independence were a profoundly intelligent, religious and ethically-minded group. Four of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were current or former full-time preachers, and many more were the sons of clergymen. Other professions held by signers include lawyers, merchants, doctors and educators. These individuals, too, were for the most part active churchgoers and many contributed significantly to their churches both with contributions as well as their service as lay leaders. The signers were members of religious denominations at a rate that was significantly higher than average for the American Colonies during the late 1700s. Religious Affiliation of the Delegates to the Constitutional Convention of 1787, including the Signers of the Constitution of the United States of America There were 55 delegates to the Constitutional Convention of 1787 at which the U.S. Constitution was drafted and signed. All participated in the proceedings which resulted in the Constitution, but only 39 of these delegates were actually signers of the document. From: Robert G. Ferris (editor), Signers of the Constitution: Historic Places Commemorating the Signing of the Constitution, published by the United States Department of the Interior, National Park Service: Washington, D.C. (revised edition 1976), page 138: Most of the [signers of the Constitution] married and fathered children. Sherman sired the largest family, numbering 15 by two wives... Three (Baldwin, Gilman, and Jenifer) were lifetime bachelors. In terms of religious affiliation, the men mirrored the overwhelmingly Protestant character of American religious life at the time and were members of various denominations. Only two, Carroll and Fitzsimons, were Roman Catholics. Religious Affiliation # of delegates % of delegates Episcopalian/Anglican 31 56.4% Presbyterian 16 29.1% Congregationalist 8 14.5% Quaker 3 5.5% Catholic 2 3.6% Methodist 2 3.6% Lutheran 2 3.6% Dutch Reformed 2 3.6% TOTAL 55 100% Name of Signer State Religious Affiliation Daniel Carroll Maryland Catholic Thomas Fitzsimons Pennsylvania Catholic Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist Nathaniel Gorham Massachusetts Congregationalist John Langdon New Hampshire Congregationalist Nicholas Gilman New Hampshire Congregationalist Abraham Baldwin Georgia Congregationalist; Episcopalian William Samuel Johnson Connecticut Episcopalian; Presbyterian James Madison Jr. Virginia Episcopalian George Read Delaware Episcopalian Daniel of St. Thomas Jenifer Maryland Episcopalian David Brearly New Jersey Episcopalian Richard Dobbs Spaight, Sr. North Carolina Episcopalian Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian Gouverneur Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian John Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian Charles Cotesworth Pinckney South Carolina Episcopalian Charles Pinckney South Carolina Episcopalian Pierce Butler South Carolina Episcopalian George Washington Virginia Episcopalian Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist) William Blount North Carolina Episcopalian; Presbyterian James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyterian