- Remember Galton’s experiments on visual imagination? Some people just don’t have it. And they never figured it out. They assumed no one had it, and when people talked about being able to picture objects in their minds, they were speaking metaphorically.
Got down a rabbit whole after CGPGrey's podcast where they mention subvocalizing ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subvocalization ).
Do you subvocalize when you read or not? What other universally human experiences might I be missing out on? Have you ever discussed such things with your friends or significant others?
All input is appreciated, I'm really curious :)
I haven't had sex. It's not been a concious decision or anything, it just never happened. I had a few changes in my teens but I suffered from being chronically slow acting. The relationships I had also ended badly before things got that far. Maybe those last two sentences are linked.
After those experiences I kind of gave up on it for a while. By the time I got to uni I was just interested in getting high, making music, and hanging out with my friends. Then I had a massive panic attack and the ensuing 12 months or so of crippiling anxiety closed me off socially and made me a lot more reserved.
Now I'm out the other side of all that and I am starting to really think about it again. Though to be honest, it is emotional connection I seek more than sexual gratification. However, due to the way things unfolded I have a lack of serious relationship experience. I think I'm too idealistic and suffer from having too high expectations of how a potential partner should be. I also have trust issues. Those last two sentences are probably linked too.
Also, yes, I do subvocalise.
- Though to be honest, it is emotional connection I seek more than sexual gratification
- We all have needs and sex is one of them
Mark Manson explains why sex is not a need (in short, it's a drive to have other needs met, but do read forth as it also explains what TNG has touched on his last sentence).
I've figured the subject out only recently, after years of masturbation. I was lying in my bed, getting ready for the thing (since I was masturbating very often by the moment - once a day or two - it would take me a while to get into the mood again), I realized that what turns me on more in the fantasies was not the sex itself nor so much sexual pleasures (softcore BDSM, squirting, so on), but the intimacy, the emotional connection between me and the other person. No wonder I've only been fantasizing lucidly about having sex with the only person I've ever connected to, and even then it wasn't purely moving my dick in her vagina back and forth.
FFS I had 4 paragraphs typed out until my cat walked on my keyboard and somehow deleted it. So here is a half assed second attempt.
“Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as far as meaningless experiences go, it’s pretty damn good”. - Woody Allen
I hear you. I was brought up in a very Catholic family and taught that sex was sacred and all that. I was lucky enough to be "in love" twice through high school and first year uni so got my start that way but then essentially stopped trying until I got to grad school. Then I subscribed to the above theory and became a total ethical slut.
Please remember that when it does happen it will probably be awkward, unsatisfying and you will not be any good at it but that is completely normal. You usually can't be good at anything without practice. So try not to let that natural fact negatively impact your thoughts on the situation. And coffeesp00ns also has a great point in that it may be that you are just not interested.
Yeah, I've accepted that the first time is has high likelihood of not being great. I'd be lying if I said my inexperience doesn't translate to a lack of confidence in myself sometimes, but I'm not ashamed of it or anything.
It doesn't help that I'm now living back with my parents in a sleepy little market town with virtually nothing going on. I'm currently working on my escape routes.
Interesting. I guess if I could relate to any of the statements made on that page it would be:
- experience sexual attraction and drive, but not strongly enough to want to act on them
Though at this point I'm not sure whether it's a biological thing or more to do with my confidence in putting myself out there (I've certainly got used to being alone.) I definitely do experience sexual drive/attraction. More often to those I've made an emotional connection with, but that's not a steadfast rule. Either way, something to ponder on. Thanks for sharing.
This is fascinating stuff, thanks for posting Elizabeth. I only subvocalize. I just tried to read without doing so and found myself almost involuntarily holding my breath. It's so unnatural.
As for other human experiences, I have never had anyone that was very close to me die. I have a world of hurt coming my way in the next 5-15 years. All of my grandparents are still alive. In fact, check out my bad-ass Oma. But they're all getting older and more frail. Some things are inevitable.
Does those two mean you don't want a family, either? I'm curious of your reasoning whichever answer you give if you can provide any, as I've been wanting to have a family of my own since very early in my life despite having crappy family relationships myself.
- What other universally human experiences might I be missing out on?
The more I think about this question the emptier my mind gets. Even thinking about the person in the link who can't smell and didn't know it for 14 years, to me the fact that she didn't know it suggests to me that smelling isn't a universal human experience. We all experience things differently, and not smelling is just a variation on that. One person watches a football game with excitement while another prefers the excitement of running a marathon.
To me, the only thing we can apply universally to all of us is that nothing is universal. I think there are common human experiences, but the human mind is so complex that lacking some of those experiences makes us no less human. And I think that's a good thing.
I'm not so sure. It depends on how 'universal human experience' is defined. If it's defined as 'something that every human experiences in the same way,' then I would be in agreement. As this article and the linked visual imagination one within it show, our personal perception of experiences are anything but objective.
On the other hand, Cambridge Dictionary Online states that experience is simply 'something that happens to you that affects how you feel.' With this is mind, I'm more inclined to think of 'universal human experience' as an event or occurrence that the majority of humans encounter during their lives. Whether or not they all have the same subjective impression of said experience is irrelevant.
Of course we all percieve things differently and they'll always be exceptional outliers, but that doesn't mean that, for the most part, we don't all experience the same thing. A person who watches a football match experiences a football match, whatever their impression of it turns out to be.
Agreed! I was just wondering what other things we accept as universal that are actually pretty different from one person to another. I mean, we can all see how everyone's hair color is different but I never really thought there were other ways to read than the way I did it (by subvocalizing). I just assumed that everyone reads/thinks that way, the same way that nobody thinks about making their heart pump if you know what I mean. It might sound obvious but it blew my mind that people actually think very differently. I somehow assumed everyone thought more or less the same way but just had different... preferences?
I don't sub-vocalize like at all. I believe that it's correlated with my pretty ridiculous reading speed and comprehension. My brain has always moved faster than my mouth/vocal equipment.
Regarding human experience, I'm not certain that it's universal, but I've never been a part of an athletic team of any variety. I was Quizbowl captain in middle and high school, but I imagine there is a pretty substantial qualitative difference between trouncing other nerds with my brain/reflexes and actually winning or losing an event where one exerts themselves physically.
I've never experienced grief when people close to me died, nor when hearing about a close friend's possibility of having cancer. Most I went through could be vocalized as "Oh... (long pause) Huh".
In fact, all of my emotions are dulled - at least, that's what I believe compared to others. It's one of the reasons I'm having a really hard time figuring out what I feel and what might have caused it - the other being lack of experience in the department (which is growing to be less of an issue with confidence). I have had some mileage understanding my emotions by now and I'm able to put my finger on the name of the feeling in minutes rather than hours or days, but it seems to be a long way from what others are capable of.
It may be the reason I talk in a monotone: not that I'm incapable of it, but that it's a normal state of affairs for me; I only get varied vocal ranges when I'm agitated over something, like an argument over something important to me. It was always fascinating for me to hear people talk in varied tones all the time, which is part of the reason I'm loving hearing Markiplier's commentaries.
I do subvocalize, most often without noticing it. I realized clearly that I do this only recently, while reading Vladimir Pozner's Parting with Illusions: Pozner has a fascinating voice, and I'm been reading his book in his voice for fun.
I have synesthetic associations for numbers, no one very close to me has died yet, I don't think I subvocalize but who knows?
I think I will never live alone. (I can't assert 100% that that's a universal human experience because many non-Western cultures value living with family members) It's probably for the best though because I am a low-energy extrovert so I do need to be around people to not totally lose my mind but I also need a good amount of decompression time. So.
Being in groups/hanging out with people. I prefer being alone most of the time, and even when I talk to other people, I don't feel like a part of the group. The experiences I had with that (and relationships) were mostly on my teens. Sexual relationships, well... I got some mileage in that department (focused on answering some questions I had, got them, been exploring that for 3 years). In the end, I realized I'm happier now being single.
As for discussing such things with someone else, nope, never had. Except for now.
About subvocalization, can't remember that happening to me. What happens when I read is that I hear the words I'm reading in my head, don't know how to call that.
I think that's what subvocalisation is! I never thought some people don't hear the words in their heads while they were reading and was very surprised to learn otherwise. I guess we all assume everybody thinks the same way we do... Perception is a really fascinating thing! If you read the link I posted, one guy didn't realize he could not smell until later in life and some other guy never really understood what people meant when the said they liked certain foods. So strange....
- I think that's what subvocalisation is!
After reading your reply, I triple-checked the definition on Google. My first understanding of it was that it meant reading while verbalizing the words aloud. So I guess I subvocalise.
- I guess we all assume everybody thinks the same way we do...
Hahahaha, yeah! It's quite fascinating indeed and at the same time this made my mind get blank right now... so much to say about this and I don't know where to start. First off, some concepts and points of view can be really far from the person's paradigm (can you imagine explaining to the general public in the 50s what a social network is? Or even a smartphone?).
There are 2 books that explore this topic: The Structure Of Scientific Revolutions and Everything We Know Is Wrong!: The Trendspotter's Handbook.
Now for some practical parts: I started reviewing music 2 years ago, and by coming in contact with lots of different genres and artists, my horizons have broadened. I noticed that my exploration was in stints: I'd dive into a specific genre, listen to the discographies, then jump to another genre, so on and so forth. Every 2-3 months, I go and say "oh, there's nothing interesting to listen to, it's all the same". A few weeks later, my perception changes and it begins all over again. Going back to the old records, some elements which I couldn't perceive before jump to my ears.
- What other universally human experiences might I be missing out on?
Another blank on my head. A few interpretations could be "what else is there to know out there?", "what is the limit to my perception as a human?", "how would a person living through all these experiences be like?" "what are these universal experiences?" or "is it worth it to have all the universal experiences. even the bad ones?". Since I'm limited to what I can perceive and what I know, one of the actions I can take is question everything. Why is MY world the way it seems to be? What could be different? What are the anomalies I experience? Why is that? Then, seek the answers.
Keep in mind that the changes you'll go through might not be the ones you expected. As I learned more and more about dating and relationships, the less inclined I felt to pursue them. I got my answers, but they moved me to a path I thought I wouldn't take.