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comment by steve
steve  ·  3132 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: BMW: All Models Electric Within Decade

Used leafs coming off of leases are in the $12k range.





ButterflyEffect  ·  3131 days ago  ·  link  ·  

That's very, very tempting. There are charging stations around where I live, and there's one at work where I could just plug it in during the day while I'm working and not have to charge it as much away from work. Between the base cost, gas savings, and I believe my company will reimburse some of the cost of electrics and hybrids, it's looking like a decent option. Only major concern is if I move again in about a year and the fact that road trips eastward would be impossible. Along the west coast though? Not so much.

demure  ·  3132 days ago  ·  link  ·  
kleinbl00  ·  3132 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I charted a route with CNET Senior Editor Luke Westaway, who was joining me on this road trip, that relied on three types of charging points, commonly referred to as slow, medium and rapid. The slowest charging point would take up to eight hours to recharge the Leaf, while the most powerful would boost the car to 80 percent charged in only half an hour.

    Our planned route would take us from London to the Peak District and back again, avoiding major cities and the main motorways where charging points are easy to find.

    Using a combination of Google Maps and Zap-Map, a site that shows the location and live status of all the UK's public charging points, I knew the number of miles between each charging point on our route. The Leaf has a theoretical range of up to 100 miles on a full charge, but in reality that number is closer to 70 or 80 miles, even when you're driving carefully.

    To complete the route in our planned two days, these charging points would be our lifeline.

In plain English:

We planned a 500-mile roadtrip through rural England in a car that needed to be charged eight times in 48 hours. Guess how it turned out?

Have a friend with an electric Fiat. He drives 60 miles to work, plugs his car into the wall, works 8 hours, then drives 60 miles home. 5 days a week, 4 weeks a month, 12 months a year. Know what he doesn't do? Expect to find rapid chargers in rural England.

steve  ·  3132 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    o was joining me on this road trip, that relied on three types of charging points, commonly referred to as slow, medium and rapid

This article would have been even less favorable on this side of the pond since everything is 110v. In a lot of the EU, homes and businesses are 240v.

On my normal outlet at home or work - it can take 20 hours to charge a full drained leaf.

Is your friend happy with the fiat EV?

tehstone  ·  3131 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    On my normal outlet at home or work - it can take 20 hours to charge a full drained leaf.

Which is why a big part of Tesla's mission is installing fast charging stations across the US and elsewhere and sharing the patented tech with other companies to help drive a standard model for charging rather than many disparate models that would fail on their own.

When you think about it, after driving ~200 (very doable in a Tesla) miles you're gonna want to take a break for 20-30 minutes anyway. Rather than pumping gas, you plug in and stretch your legs etc. It's totally entering the realm of possibility now even for the most skeptical of opponents.

kleinbl00  ·  3130 days ago  ·  link  ·  

If Tesla was clever, they'd partner with Starbuck's.

steve  ·  3131 days ago  ·  link  ·  

My point about the charge time is that the EU has an advantage with charging: they have readily available high(er) voltage at their fingertips.

    When you think about it, after driving ~200 (very doable in a Tesla) miles you're gonna want to take a break for 20-30 minutes anyway. Rather than pumping gas, you plug in and stretch your legs etc. It's totally entering the realm of possibility now even for the most skeptical of opponents.

While I agree with your sentiment and as an EV driver would REALLY LOVE for this to happen - we're still quite a ways away from this reality.

Let's say I want to drive down to LA from Denver. Google Maps tells me it's about 1000 miles. I've done the drive - all in, it's about 14-15 hours depending on conditions. If I get in my gas burner - and get about 340 miles per tank (it's a small tank. My van clears 400). So that means I'm stopping either 3 or 4 times.

If I'm in aTesla (dreams), I'm stopping 4-5 times. And at a minimum - I'm staying at the station for 20-30 minutes. so we've just added 1.4-2.5 hours. I know, I know - it's not THAT much time added to an already long drive - but it is time.

EVs are amazing in town. I hope batteries just get cheaper and better. I hope more car companies provide electric options. I really do love it. It just make SO MUCH SENSE for my life right now. But I can see how it makes ZERO sense for lots of other folks.

kleinbl00  ·  3130 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I built EVs for a company called Wilde EVolutions. Back then (~95), the badass rig was a Honda Civic running AC propulsion. That dude? Got about 80 miles on his batteries. When he wanted to go cross-country, he towed a generator.

Fucker got about 300mpg.

user-inactivated  ·  3131 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I really do love it. It just make SO MUCH SENSE for my life right now. But I can see how it makes ZERO sense for lots of other folks.

I think it's one of those things that will keep EVs niche or secondary vehicles for the foreseeable future. It's one of those types of cars where there are some very strong advantages, but the same thing that gives it those strong advantages also gives it some drawbacks, They're very specialized in the same way something like a Mazda Miata or a Ford F-350 is specialized.

What I hope EVs will have going in their favor though, is that as time goes on and the technology evolves, they'll end up being much more versatile, offering longer ranges, faster charge times, maybe even the capability to do some light hauling. We're very much in the early stages and the only way to move is forward. After all, an IC engine from the 1920s looks nothing like an IC engine from the 1960s and those look nothing like modern IC engines. Sure, the basics are all there, but the technology just keeps on developing, sometimes in little steps, sometimes in leaps and bounds.

steve  ·  3131 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    like a Mazda Miata

How did you know what my secondary car was? ;-)

user-inactivated  ·  3131 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Is it really? If so, that's no surprise. They're very affordable and fun to drive, but let's face it, you're not going to be hauling groceries with it let alone lumber. :)

steve  ·  3131 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yep. When he got tired of getting in and out of it at age 72, I inhereted my dad's 92 that he bought new. It's a terribly fun car. Practical? Uh... No.

user-inactivated  ·  3131 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It's a practical fun car though. It's good on gas, is fun to drive even though it doesn't have a lot of power, they're cheap to buy and maintain, and they're as reliable as all get out.

I absolutley love the NA Mata in particular, if only because they're reminiscent of the Austin Healey Sprite mk I which looks so much like a frog it's awesome.

kleinbl00  ·  3130 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Ahhh, Leyland. "Your wiring harness is the color of wire we had that day. Enjoy."

I've maintained an MGA and an MGTF in my life. The bug-eyes are entertaining... but I'll take a Datsun 2000 over one any day.

user-inactivated  ·  3130 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Sometimes I think people buy and maintain classic British cars just so they can complain about how hard they are to maintain.

As for Japanese roadsters, I've always wanted to drive a Honda s600 for an afternoon.

kleinbl00  ·  3129 days ago  ·  link  ·  

That is a cute little thing. Never even heard of it, though. Datsun 2000s? I had two in my client list.

Classic british cars aren't "hard" to maintain, they're f'n annoying to maintain. The British did preposterously stupid things - like decide the XK120 ought to be effectively oil-cooled so that they could keep the grille small. Like decide a 3-position switch ought to have 11 moving pieces. Then you get into the Labor era when the factory workers were literally sabotaging their own shit and you see why the sun set right fast on the British Empire.

user-inactivated  ·  3129 days ago  ·  link  ·  

My wife is a huge fan of classic Japanese cars. She just loves their styling. I think if you threw anything from a 240z to an Rx-3 to a Skyline her way she'd be happy. In fact, I think if we win the lottery half of our garage will be full of nothing but classic imports.

steve  ·  3130 days ago  ·  link  ·  

NA all the way... but I will confess that the ND is SUPER HOT.

Good on gas? How about a 23 year old car getting 34 mpg. not a lot of power? ok... guilty as charged... but I think I double the weight when I get in. It's enough to be fun.

user-inactivated  ·  3130 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    NA all the way... but I will confess that the ND is SUPER HOT.

I think the ND looks great, though maybe a bit too aggressive. The body is just begging for a Turbo 4 to back up its looks.

tehstone  ·  3131 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I suppose it depends on how urgent the trip is, typically after 200 miles you'll want a bathroom break and perhaps a meal. Along with pumping gas you'd be looking at 20-30 minutes anyway. Add to that the increase in battery technology and you start to see progress. I'm definitely an optimist on this but even if you got to a point where driving around town was done via electric and people rented gas cars for longer trips that would be a huge shift. But since that relies on people to change their habits it also assumes a certain sense of optimism.

kleinbl00  ·  3131 days ago  ·  link  ·  
steve  ·  3131 days ago  ·  link  ·  

yep... hard to pass that kind of thing up. I would be ALL OVER that if I were in CA.