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Salesmanship, too, is an art; the perfection of its technique requires study and practice. -James Cash Penney
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I can't tell you how many times people have said to me something along the lines of, "my brother in law is such a people person, I keep telling him that he'd be great in sales." -Really? If you met someone that enjoys reading, does that mean they'd be a great writer? If you met someone that loves the show E.R. would that make them a great physician?
Selling is more than being able to quickly develop a rapport with someone. Don't get me wrong, it's helpful but it's not necessary. It's not even that important.
The Sales Executive Council launched a global study of sales rep productivity eight years ago and determined that there were essentially five different types of salespeople. Have a look below and before you go any further in this post, figure out which one you think best describes you. Which one do you think is the most successful?
Relationship Builders: focus on developing strong personal and professional relationships and advocates across the customer organization. They are generous with their time, strive to meet customers’ every need, and work hard to resolve tensions in the commercial relationship.
Hard Workers: show up early, stay late, and always go the extra mile. They’ll make more calls in an hour and conduct more visits in a week than just about anyone else on the team.
Lone Wolves: are the deeply self-confident, the rule-breaking cowboys of the sales force who do things their way or not at all.
Reactive Problem Solvers: are, from the customers’ standpoint, highly reliable and detail-oriented. They focus on post-sales follow-up, ensuring that service issues related to implementation and execution are addressed quickly and thoroughly.
Challengers: use their deep understanding of their customers’ business to push their thinking and take control of the sales conversation. They’re not afraid to share even potentially controversial views and are assertive — with both their customers and bosses.
What the Sales Executive Council found was that the average salesforce has a pretty equal distribution of all selling styles. However, of all the top performers in the companies studied, 40% of them were the challenger profile.. --Much of the stats in this post are from this article and from the book The Challenger Sale -- which I HIGHLY recommend.
So, the challenger is the most successful, but why? It's because they're able to bring a customer to a moment when they realize they have a problem that previously, they didn't realize existed. Or, they're able to get them to admit that their problems/challenges are more perilous or pressing than they were previously wiling to admit.
Okay, but like how do they do that tng?
Typically in the past (and largely still) sales reps will call on an account and do some probing and determine the problems that the customer already knows exists and then they'll position their products as a solution to these problems. This is referred to as "benefit selling." And guess what? There's nothing wrong with benefit selling, except that if it were the end-all-be-all of selling, there would be no need for outside sales reps.
Why would there be no need for outside sales reps tng?
Okay, let's say you own a business and you know that you have a problem with "x." What's the first thing you're going to do? That's right, you're going to Google, or to a product catalog to order the solution to "x." -90% of the time, this is what happens these days. If the customer knows they have a problem, they're generally savvy enough to try and figure it out on their own.
Challengers will use their knowledge of the industry they're selling in to do a deep-dive in to the customers current and future business. They'll leverage peer-set's to point out problems that exist in other peoples similar businesses. They'll ask about the customers exit strategy and they'll teach them about what their peers have found successful.
When establishing a need that the customer didn't know existed, they'll make it palpable and will create constructive tension in order to get the customer to admit that there is indeed a problem to be solved.
You might be thinking to yourself, "okay tng, this doesn't seem that unusual, it seems common sense that a salesperson that is more assertive would be more successful." -Does it? Prior to reading this, didn't you assume that the person that was the relationship builder would carry the day?
The most surprising part of the Sales Executive Council's finding's was that "Relationship Builders," make up only 4% (the smallest amount) of top performers. Dead Last.
Relationship Builders have so much invested in the "relationship" with the customer that they're afraid to disturb it. Because they're afraid to disturb the relationship, they can't close business.
Just because they don't want to upset their customers, doesn't mean they can't close business tng!
Um... yes, it does. In order to close business, regardless of what you are selling, requires a customer to make a change. In order for a customer to change something, you have to challenge them. People are adverse to change and a "relationship builder," avoids aversions.
If you are insistent on developing a strong relationship with your customers, that's great. YOU SHOULD. But make sure it's a relationship founded on your worth as a consultant. Anyone can play golf with a customer, buy their customer a beer at a ballgame, be the "funny guy" or talk about how your kids are the same age etc. ANYONE. If you base your worth on that, you will have a mediocre career, at best. But very few people can challenge their customers way of thinking in a way that develops a relationship based on mutual respect.
Which relationship do you think is more secure?
Also, no matter what kind of relationship you have with your customer, it's worth squat unless you can leverage it for increased sales. -A challenger can and does.
So remember, your customers are NOT your friends, they're your customers and they're relying on you to consult them on major business decisions. Don't lose sight of that.
---HOMEWORK ASSIGNMENT----
My wife LOVES to take personality index tests, you know the ones; DISC/Myers Briggs etc.
We recently took Myers Briggs and it turns out we are each a personality type that only 4% of the population has. She's referred to as "The Commander," (trust me, I have my hands full) and I am "The Debater". -Essentially, I love a verbal challenge, so the Challenger selling model has been a natural fit for me.... my marriage, well it's been worth the work :)
What is your personality style? Check out this online Myers Briggs assessment. You might be surprised by how accurate it is. I was.
Take the test here. -Share your findings. Was it accurate?
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flagamuffin · 704 days ago · link ·
Hey, look, a bullshitter writing about bullshit. Touchdown!
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Good job completely dismissing arguments because you don't like the author. I mean, it's not a brilliant article, but he does make some good points. Such as: The Myers-Briggs assumes that who we are is consistent from one situation to another [...] according to some studies, more than half of those who take the test a second time end up with a different score than when they took it the first time. Since personality is continuous, not dichotomous, clearly some people who are borderline Introverts or Feelers one week slide over to Extroversion or Thinking the next week. And since personality is contingent, not stable, how we answer is affected by which circumstances are foremost in our minds when we take the test.
“Every individual is an exception to the rule,” he wrote; to “stick labels on people at first sight,” in his view, was “nothing but a childish parlor game.”
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flagamuffin · 704 days ago · link ·
Completely dismissed the article because I don't like the author (or the subject). Never read the actual arguments. Well, except the ones you just quoted, which are ironic because this is what he spends all of his books doing, so that people with money to burn will burn it on him.“Every individual is an exception to the rule,” he wrote; to “stick labels on people at first sight,” in his view, was “nothing but a childish parlor game.”
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thenewgreen · 704 days ago · link ·
I was offended until I realized you were referring to Gladwell..... -you were, right?
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flagamuffin · 704 days ago · link ·
HA yeah. EDIT: I have hated the MB since it became a forum craze about 13 years ago.
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thenewgreen · 703 days ago · link ·
Honestly, I hate it now too. I us no idea that a post I made on the decline of relationship selling would turn in to all this. The addition of the MB stuff at the end was sort of a last minute add-on. I'll be more thoughtful with such things moving forward.
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flagamuffin · 703 days ago · link ·
Hope it didn't turn into anything in particular, I haven't really been paying attention. Unfortunately my non-quick submission hubski time has dramatically decreased with this new job/moving/life. Sucks. Plus side, I read a quote or heard someone say that they listened to the White Album every day for a year so I'm listening to the White Album.
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thenewgreen · 703 days ago · link ·
I've gotten my daughter in a horrible habit of wanting to see a short video on my phone after I tell her a bed-time story. For a while there it was old Star Wars clips. Now, it's been the old Beatles Cartoons. I've never really seen them before, but I searched "Beatles Cartoons" one night to try and find some Yellow Submarine footage and stumbled upon them. They're EXTREMELY cheesy but she loves them and has been asking, "Daddy, can we watch the Beatles?" -Warms my heart. We watched this one. Good luck with the job/moving/life -it's a busy time for a lot of people I know right now. We'll get through it!Plus side, I read a quote or heard someone say that they listened to the White Album every day for a year so I'm listening to the White Album.
That's awesome. It was the first Beatles album I owned when I was a child of twelve. I used to fall asleep to Julia on repeat.
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flagamuffin · 703 days ago · link ·
They follow Why Don't We Do It in the Road with I Will of all songs -- "Will I wait a lonely lifetime, if you want me to..." EDIT: shit, I still watch those cartoons occasionally.
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"I Will" is the first song both my children heard after being born. I sang it to them both. Best song ever.
thenewgreen · 704 days ago · link ·
I think that anything like MB that whittles a person down to an easily identifiable category can be dangerous only if people take them too seriously. They're good prompts for self-reflection and I've yet to find someone that earnestly answered the questions and then thought that the assessment they were given was wildly inaccurate. Also, it's worth noting that they're all quite different. For example, if I were told I was the personality style that was assessed to crafty, I wouldn't buy it for a moment. In regard to the five categories the Sales Executive Council established, if you read the book Challenger Selling they make it pretty clear that most people have different gradients of each style. But, it's been my experience that their claim that Challenger's are the most successful is spot on. As someone that has made a living being able to read personality styles in order to quickly create a buying environment, I know that there is validity to these index tests. Are they static? No. But they can provide insight in to yourself and others. And... like you said, they are fun.
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First off, it is not at all difficult to generate a text that sounds like it fits you - especially with a questionnaire of over 60 questions as an input. Second, for me 'taking it too seriously' is taking it serious at all. To put it bluntly, it's a completely made up test, based on 8 completely random traits, that only allows you to label / categorize / put people in boxes. People are complex, are changing over time and act different in different situations. All factors that the M-B completely ignores. I don't think any index can fix this properly, unless you want seven billion boxes to put people in. From what I know about you and what you do, I would argue that you make much more use of experience, people knowledge and skill than whatever simplified label you can tag on them in the first five minutes. Once you've concluded that a person is, say, a sensing introvert, it becomes very hard not to fall prey to selection bias and framing. Hence my opinion that these kinds of tests are just toxic.As someone that has made a living being able to read personality styles in order to quickly create a buying environment, I know that there is validity to these index tests.
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thenewgreen · 704 days ago · link ·
Let me be clear, I don't think the tests are anything but a device to get people thinking and discussing our different ways of experiencing the world and recognizing that others have different motivating factors. I phrased the part you quoted poorly. The validity isnt the test, it's that we all have different "styles" as I mentioned before, these are not static. I don't think we would disagree on much regarding these except hat I find them to be much more benign than you do, perhaps because I've never known someone to really take them too seriously. That said, I think everyone wants to think they're a precious, unique flower when in reality, yes on a level you are but on another level you can be pretty damn predictable.
I really wish I had omitted any mention of MB. It was an afterthought in a post about the death of relationship and solution based selling.
I've always considered the MB to be better than most systems, because it uses several individual axis addressed independently. None of the traits exclude someone from having any of the other traits (besides the polar opposite). One thing the test you linked doesn't do so well is focus on the gradients of each. I'm pretty strongly introverted and intuitive, but the other two are rather borderline, switching depending on timing and the test. From my understanding, it was originally developed as a tool for psychoanalysis. By placing the patient in a category, the psychoanalyst could then more easily focus on releveant problems. However, Jung's theories, off which the MB is based, have largely been passed over in the academic world. So, while a detailed analysis done by a professional (as opposed to a 12 minute test) could be useful for a patient and therapist, the use of MB for employment purposes is slightly terrifying. Plus, apparently even as the theory was first being published, there were questions as to its validity and that of the methods used to arrive at it.
ButterflyEffect · 704 days ago · link ·
Historically I've been labelled "INTJ-A" (Architect) but today I was labelled "ESTJ-A" (Executive). Those are two very different things. Hm.
I took one of the myers briggs test a few years ago and it said that I'm an INTP. After reading the description, it did seem to fit me rather well. INTPs are marked by a quiet, stoic, modest, and aloof exterior that masks strong creativity and enthusiasm for novel possibilities. Their weaknesses include poor organization, insensitivity to social niceties, and a tendency to get lost in abstractions. Keirsey referred to INTPs as Architects, one of the four types belonging to the temperament he called the Rationals.
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Hey, I got that too, and it fits pretty well. It's weird. HeathenFairy got it too, though the site said we are only 3% of the population. Maybe there's a reason we are drawn to this post.
I think this is the test you're talking about, especially as you linked to their site. I don't care to be in sales, but I am loving your articles, tng. It's a cool art to learn about!
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I'm a relationship builder for the most part. I think what you are selling has an impact on what kind of salesman you need to be. Tending bar is very condusive to relationship building. Some times I'm a challenger. "Do you like to have fun?" customers eye flash to mine a little surprised that the transaction is leaving the script. Before they stumble out an awkward answer "because I was watching you guys... And I thought, these might be people who like to have fun... So do you?" "uhhhh, yea, I like to have fun... " "Well... I have just the shot for you guys, I'll get you into it for $5.50 a piece, it's going to be great." "what's in it?" "Hold on, I thought you just said you liked to have fun...fun is spontaneous, it's filled with delightful surprises." I put on a disappointed air "Well if you don't like fun I'll jut get you guys your gin and tonics and PBR's." "Wait, I like fun, 5.50? I'll do it!" "You won't be sorry." Load them up with a tray of shots that take multiple glasses and instructions. The person who bought the round takes it all back, lead their friends through the instructions and is a hero of booze and fun.
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thenewgreen · 702 days ago · link ·
I love it! Seriously, that's a great example of challenging someone and providing a legitimate service. You are the "fun" consultant. -great gig.
TheVenerableCain · 703 days ago · link ·
I've always tested as INTJ as well, but this test says ISTP. I did score a 99% on introversion so at least that's about right. All of these tests ask the same basic questions multiple times per test and just word them differently. I assume it's to balance scores, but it's annoying to answer "you would rather read a book than go to a party" and then turn around and answer "you don't enjoy parties as much as reading" or what have you. Interesting, but I don't feel it describes my personality particularly well. Still, it's a fun 5 minute break from work. As for your sales series, I have to admit that I don't have a very positive view of sales, probably due to movies/shows/my dad, but I'm going to try to word this in a non-hostile way. If you think I'm being a dick, sorry! I promise I'm not trying to be one. I really do enjoy reading about your work and am very curious to know how it all works. I know nothing about the sales world so be prepared for some stupid questions if you decide to read on. I can't help but feel that everything in sales is contrived and designed to purposefully sell things that maybe the customer doesn't really need. This isn't due to what you're saying, but my own uninformed view. Do you as a salesperson have a genuine concern for the issues that your customer faces and have a desire for them to succeed or is the goal just to sell more things? I'm certain that you want their business to grow so that you can continue selling more things to them, but do you have to balance their growth with your own sales goals? Speaking of, what kind of goals do you (salespeople in general) have? Sale quotas, dollar quotas, or something else? How do things like having Billy Bob as a customer for 20 years who only buys $10,000 in goods/services a year compare to Joe Dirt who pays $100k this year and you never see him again? I guess my question there is who is the more valuable customer? Is that question even relevant? Hypothetical - your customer says he needs a bigger refrigerator, but you convince him that he needs a bigger freezer as well. He doesn't necessarily need a bigger freezer, but you've convinced him that he does. Is it due to you projecting a future need for more frozen storage for him or a present want for more money for you? Is there an established ethical guideline or is it more of a personal one that you set for yourself? How do you know that you're acting in the customer's best interests and not just your own (I'm assume you try and have a healthy balance), or is that a consideration? Is this even a realistic scenario? The things you've posted such as mirroring and paraphrasing also seem very odd to me. For example, you said Salesperson: Okay, so what you are saying is that you would like to be able to open up your new southeast facility sooner, but because of sluggish sales in that region, you will have to wait until late 2016. Prospect: Yes, unfortunately, that's where we find ourselves. Do people not get annoyed when someone does that? "Yes, I just said that (and now I'm annoyed)" is what I think when I read the salesperson's response. As for mirroring, I just think "are you copying me?" suspicious squint. I do realize that you put disclaimers at the bottom for newbies about being genuine, but I'm curious as to how this actually works. Maybe I shouldn't own a business. Anyway, sorry again if this comes off as rude. I'm curious as to how this works with more normal people.Prospect: We are down about 12% year to date in the southeastern US market. This means we are likely not going to be able to open our new southeast facility until fourth quarter 2016.
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thenewgreen · 703 days ago · link ·
No need to apologize, those are legitimate questions for someone outside of sales to have. I've never sold something to someone that I thought they'd regret. That's the truth. That would be a really shitty feeling because I would have had to be a liar in order to have gained the sale. Again, I'm sure people do it, but I've only sold high integrity products in verticals where my product/services were well regarded. The companies I have worked for would have reprimanded me if I had knowingly sold people the wrong product or something they clearly could not use. As for your other question about goals etc. each company and each industry does things differently. I'll tell you about my last position. I was given a salary, which was roughly a third of my overall earnings. 2/3rds of my earnings came from bonuses based on performance. I had a goal to bring in $32million of new business to my company. -that's a big number. I received a et amount for hitting my goal. I received a quarterly bonus check based in the amount I had sold towards that goal. So if I was 25% towards my goal after the first quarter, I would get 25% of the bonus. Then, at the end of the year I would get basis points on everything I signed and increased basis points for the amount over goal. I also received set spiffs for certain products I sold too. Some came with $100 signing bonus and a $500 bonus upon "activation." If you are lazy or just not good at the job, it will not be terribly lucrative, though the base salary isn't terrible and you also get a company car, Internet, lap top, iPad etc. but if you don't perform, you'll get let go. There's no subjectivity in sales, you are either performing or you are not. It's a profession that requires a bachelors degree to get to a certain level, but beyond that it just requires ability. The numbers don't lie. You can prove yourself, work your way in to a top industry selling software, med devices or financial products and earn $150 - $500k a year. It's pretty incredible. My friend Brian once dated a girl who's father was an attorney and he said, I make more than her dad." -He did. He had a degree in graphic design and was selling med devices, earning $180k+ a year. So, it's very much predicated on hitting a goal, but if you do, you can earn a TON of money and enjoy a lot of autonomy. I've worked from home for the past 10
Years. Feel free to ask any questions you'd like though. I love asking the scientists etc on Hubski questions about their profession. It's time I gave back. Edit: please excuse typos. I'm on my phone. Let me know what I didn't answer. I am responding from memory.I can't help but feel that everything in sales is contrived and designed to purposefully sell things that maybe the customer doesn't really need.
I've never had to sell something like that, but it definitely exists. The negative feelings you have towards the profession of sales likely stems from this. Just like most professions, there are "levels" of different professionalism.
It's a dialog template. You're supposed to use your own personal speaking voice and mannerisms. For example, my response to such a situation would be along the lines "Yeah, that's pretty rough. Setbacks are always a bit hard to swallow. So do you think if things turn around you can hit your goal sooner or is 2016 pretty much a hard date for you now?" Not only does it allow you to sympathize and connect, but it allows your further opportunity to probe and offer solutions.Do people not get annoyed when someone does that? "Yes, I just said that (and now I'm annoyed)" is what I think when I read the salesperson's response. As for mirroring, I just think "are you copying me?" suspicious squint. I do realize that you put disclaimers at the bottom for newbies about being genuine, but I'm curious as to how this actually works. Maybe I shouldn't own a business.
I'm a Mediator (INFP-T) whilst my wife is an Adventurer (ISFP-T), looking through the profiles there's definitely stuff that we can relate to and for the most part we agree with these labels. I like that it says "INFPs need to be able to work with creativity and consideration – high-pressure salespeople they are not." I think I'm in the wrong tag here! See also:
I'm "The Virtuoso." The description was about half accurate, which is what I'd expect from mealy mouthed bullshit like this. Lots of people see themselves reflected in their horoscopes as well. I wonder why it come out different every time I take this test, eh not really, because it's bullshit. You should go and take the scientology personality test if you like this kind of thing, it's a hoot.
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thenewgreen · 704 days ago · link ·
There are definitely parallels with horoscopes or even going to see a psychic. Nobody's future is full of gloom and everyone's past life was that of Napolean or some noble lord etc. I'm not some "believer" in this stuff. It was an afterthought that I tagged on a post about a sales methodology. But it's definitely what has garnered all the comments. Too bad. From what I know of you, "The Virtuoso" sounded pretty appropriate. You definitely seem the type to crave their individual freedom, someone that likes to work with their hands and fix things and you're creative. -That said, there are only two MB personality types I knew the name for prior to today and that's mine and my wife's. I'm no student of the stuff. But I do think, for the sake of sales, it's worthwhile to consider the many personality types and their motivating factors. What makes one person take action might be very different for another. But yeah, as I mentioned in a comment to veen, I don't think people should take this stuff too seriously. That would be very silly. But I did enjoy taking the quiz with my wife. We were at a sushi restaurant, having had a couple of drinks and reading each others "styles" to the other had us laughing pretty hard.
SadPandaIsSad · 704 days ago · link ·
This is the second test of this type that I have taken in the last three months. This one claims I am ENFP but the previous one claims me to be INFJ. In both cases my I/E and J/P were almost even. It's seems that I am caught in the middle. In both cases my NF is not close to neutral. I see things from both that are very close to who I believe myself to be as well as how people close to me perceive me to be. Some of these things are incredibly contradictory. I wonder what this balance means. Am I just indecisive and confused or is it an ability to be one or the other as necessary? Does it mean that my knack for logic allows me to be that which I am not? Or are they conflicting "me's" so to speak? Obviously these tests aren't the end all be all of personality but I definitely see some truth to it. It almost seems like I'm an anomaly. Lol.
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user-inactivated · 704 days ago · link ·
I hung out with this guy who was an INTJ. He automatically judged, that I was an INFP. He would constantly hate on people who were "feelers". I went and took the test an was a INTP-A, and told him I wasn't a feeler. He thought, because I was female and crazy, I had to be a feeler. It was especially irritating, because everything he was implying was way off. I argued that I wasn't particularly sick, because I was scientific and logical about my emotions. He took this stuff way to seriously. The product that I have tried to sell in the past is design services. When I thought my Permaculture Design Certificate was enough to get work. I am going to school to do more institutional design, because I wasn't enough of a relationship builder, and the product is something people, don't know they need yet. The first time I went to school was for plumbing, to start a greywater irrigation, rainwater catchment, solar hot water, and xeriscaping company in LA. That plan would have worked, if the advisers told me to join the pipe fitters union, not go to trade school. It is pretty hard to convince people to let you redesign how their home works. I like to do work, and dig outside quietly. Though I think I could work my way up to designing for the government, because I observe the way many systems are designed, and know I could do better.
I wanted to work in government, once I realized I'm a grownup now, and could take responsibility to understand how things work, and fix them. Though I am not looking forward to the gender conformity, necessary to look "professional".
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thenewgreen · 704 days ago · link ·
That guy that prejudged you sounds like a tool. Good luck with your studies and pursuits.I am going to school to do more institutional design, because I wasn't enough of a relationship builder, and the product is something people, don't know they need yet.
should you find yourself in a selling position again, check out the book I referenced. Challenger selling doesn't require the type of relationship building you are likely referring to. Relationship salespeople are often the least successful.
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user-inactivated · 704 days ago · link ·
He was a tool. I "accedentally" got with someone with amazing dreads, after I quit talking to that balding egotistical dude, just to burn him a little bit. This is the only way I read anymore, while I do math homework.
http://audiobookbay.co/audio-books/the-challenger-sale-taking-control-of-the-customer-conversation-matthew-dixon-brent-adamson/