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comment by aeromill
aeromill  ·  3208 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: The Repugnant Conclusion

I completely agree that we should be using Average Utilitarianism as well. The only downsides I can think of are only "downsides" because they are counter intuitive, but intuition doesn't define morality. Here's an example: a population of 100 people with 100 happiness each or a population of 1,000,000 with 99 happiness each. Intuition tells us that the larger population with almost the same happiness is better when in reality population size is only important insofar as it adds to happiness.

I also agree with your point that utility or happiness isn't well specified. Personally, I think that an answer will arise the more we learn about the brain through neuroscience so that we can find an objective quantifiable measure that pleasure, joy, ecstasy, etc. all add to.

Edit: I forgot about an issue with average utilitarianism. See below.





TheSkeward  ·  3208 days ago  ·  link  ·  

So, let me ask you this. Say we have two completely separate areas - for the sake of argument, we'll have the Earth and a separate planet in our solar system called Earth Mk II. For the purposes of this thought experiment, the two planets are totally hidden from each other in such a way that neither will ever discover the other, and nothing that happens on one will ever affect the other.

Earth and Earth Mk II are pretty similar places, with equal populations. The big difference is that Earth has 90 units of happiness averaged throughout the population, and Earth Mk 2. has 98. Now, even though they're completely separated, isn't the correct move in average utilitarianism to destroy Earth, so that the solar system has a higher average happiness?

Further, assuming we can do this without affecting their happiness, isn't the correct play for average utilitarianism simply to find the happiest being in the universe, and kill everything else? That conclusion seems a little repugnant, too.

aeromill  ·  3208 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You know, I don't know why I forgot this. I knew I was forgetting why Average Utilitarianism was bad when simple utility is the goal.

What do you think of side constraint utilitarianism where another value can be selected in conjunction with utility?

TheSkeward  ·  3207 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Sure, I like it! Of course, the caveat is that off the top of my head, I can't think of a side constraint that would cover all cases. I've also heard it called two-level utilitarianism, where you make a judgment call over whether total or average utilitarianism is more important on a situation-by-situation basis. My post below about Utilitarianism But pretty much sums up my view.

sullyj3  ·  3208 days ago  ·  link  ·  
This comment has been deleted.
sullyj3  ·  3208 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'll repost a comment I made on a different blog post:

"I feel like that’s only unintuitive if you’re already coming from a framework where greater net utility is desirable, like hedonistic utilitarianism. The only problem I have with the 100 people is the lack of diversity."