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comment by thenewgreen
thenewgreen  ·  4425 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Atheism and Oppression
Two quotes for you:

The first from an author I miss:

    “About once or twice every month I engage in public debates with those whose pressing need it is to woo and to win the approval of supernatural beings. Very often, when I give my view that there is no supernatural dimension, and certainly not one that is only or especially available to the faithful, and that the natural world is wonderful enough—and even miraculous enough if you insist—I attract pitying looks and anxious questions. How, in that case, I am asked, do I find meaning and purpose in life? How does a mere and gross materialist, with no expectation of a life to come, decide what, if anything, is worth caring about?

    Depending on my mood, I sometimes but not always refrain from pointing out what a breathtakingly insulting and patronizing question this is. (It is on a par with the equally subtle inquiry: Since you don't believe in our god, what stops you from stealing and lying and raping and killing to your heart's content?) Just as the answer to the latter question is: self-respect and the desire for the respect of others—while in the meantime it is precisely those who think they have divine permission who are truly capable of any atrocity—so the answer to the first question falls into two parts. A life that partakes even a little of friendship, love, irony, humor, parenthood, literature, and music, and the chance to take part in battles for the liberation of others cannot be called 'meaningless' except if the person living it is also an existentialist and elects to call it so. It could be that all existence is a pointless joke, but it is not in fact possible to live one's everyday life as if this were so. Whereas if one sought to define meaninglessness and futility, the idea that a human life should be expended in the guilty, fearful, self-obsessed propitiation of supernatural nonentities… but there, there. Enough.” ― Christopher Hitchens, Hitch-22

The second from a musician I love:

    I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me -John Lennon

Like you, I don't like to call myself an atheist. Not because of the reddit atheism community, I am not familiar with them, but because to me atheists seem too certain that God does not exist. I cannot prove nor disprove the existence of a creator. I'm also not a fan of ascribing myself to any "group". For this same reason, I've never referred to myself as a Democrat or a Liberal even though my politics put me squarely in either camp. I just don't want to be labeled.

My father in law is a very Christian man and it's hard for me to be around him sometimes because I know that he desires more than anything for me to be a christian. For years I tried to accommodate this and studied the bible and even went to church weekly. I can't pretend anymore though. I find no value in religion. I find a great deal of value in the teachings of Jesus Christ but religion is just not in the cards for me. I suppose I'm an agnostic if I must be labeled. I think that Christ's message is wonderful, I just don't believe the whole "son of god" part.

But I love my father in law and I think he's a good man. I just look in his eyes sometimes and see Theoden King's glassy stare while being controlled by Saruman. -Too nerdy a reference?

Are you familiar with the Jeffersonian bible? -Thomas Jefferson was amazing.

But as for atheism vs. religion, most of it on either side has to do with wanting to "belong" to a group that can define "you". I'm a ___blank___ is an important thing for most people to have the ability to say.

Only recently have I found what I can use to fill in the ___blank___

-I now say, "I'm a hubskier".





cl3ft  ·  4392 days ago  ·  link  ·  
    Like you, I don't like to call myself an atheist. Not because of the reddit atheism community, I am not familiar with them, but because to me atheists seem too certain that God does not exist.

Most that identify themselves as Atheists do not claim to be certain that a God by any meaningful definition does not exist. They instead say that it has the same probability as faeries or santa clause existing. The distinction between exceedingly improbable and impossible is inconsequential and not worth considering.

thenewgreen  ·  4392 days ago  ·  link  ·  
To make such a comparison, there would need to be baseline understanding of what "god" meant. It's about the most loaded word in the entire lexicon. If it means an all knowing bearded figure that spends it's time in a mystical place called "heaven" devising grand plots on how to grant free will and then punish people for exercising it, then YES I agree with your comparison to faeries and santa. But if it means a creator, or a source of life that is beyond my knowing... this is less "santa-ish".

That said, I have no proof of either the santa version or otherwise. But still, I can't unabashedly claim there is no "creator".

cl3ft  ·  4391 days ago  ·  link  ·  
This is why I used the term "by any meaningful definition". A God that is only a creator of the universe is indistinguishable from a law of physics that we do not fully understand yet and would certainly not value faith or religion, so a fairly meaningless definition of God. If God is the creator of life on earth specifically and cares what happens to us we are back into faerie land.

In summary, Unless your definition of God is so loose as to be indistinguishable from chance or physics then it's likelihood approaches zero.

newgameplus  ·  4425 days ago  ·  link  ·  
Identity is a fun topic. I'm always interested in how people see themselves and why. :)
thenewgreen  ·  4425 days ago  ·  link  ·  
It is an interesting topic. It seems you identify yourself as someone that enjoys conversations about identity. You're an identifite!

It's interesting for me to look back at the path my life has taken and how my perception of myself has changed. Equally interesting is what hasn't changed. The constants in my self "identity".

I'm a musician.