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comment by Nollenia

I don't really see how both sides of this blurb are opposed in anyway.

The medical community SHOULD be invested in finding out the most they can about the needs of trans people, specially teens. Researching a solid grasp of the subject matter can only help.

And teens who have experienced gender dysphoria since their earliest memories are not in an enviable position.

However, research will stumble across any new social mores that are just now slowly beginning to develop: it's just the nature of questioning.

I mean, here, have some questions fresh out of my gourd in five minutes: Are there biological markers for dysphoria? Why or why not? If there are, should we test for them at an early age? Is gender reassignment always the best choice? Can dysphoria be so 'entrenched' in some trans people, that they may continue experiencing it even after going through the process? And on and on and on.

Many of these questions, and more, will be asked and researched and there'll be much poking and prodding and statistics-ing and it will surely be an awkward time.

I still think it'll be worth it.





coffeesp00ns  ·  3479 days ago  ·  link  ·  

The Opposing sections of the blurb are:

1.) the Author of the article being critiqued, saying "how do we know this trans thing isn't just a phase for these kids?"

2.) The science, and the medical community clearly saying "This is not the sort of thing that is a 'phase'"

Like the article said, "going goth" is (for some, not all), just a phase. being a trans person is not just a phase.

For the record, the APA has a great PDF all about trans people.

regarding the questions off your gourd:

1.) biological markers - not as yet, though there was some interesting work that suggested that it may have to do with the amount of estrogen in the womb (in reference to MtF trans people, idunno if the study considered FtM trans people). We also know that the brains of trans people tend to have resemblances to those of the gender with which they associate. AS that citation mentions, it's the sort of area where "More research is needed".

2.) No, it's not always the best choice. There are many trans people who are "Non-OP", meaning not that they "haven't had 'the' surgery," but that they do not need or desire the surgery. It's also dangerous, invasive, and expensive if it's not covered by your health plan.

what HAS been shown to be the best choice for most trans people is HRT, or hormone replacement therapy. When we are talking about "Trans Teens", that is usually what is taking place - taking hormones of the opposite gender (and in the case of MtF trans people, testosterone blockers) to generate a puberty of the opposite gender. For most trans people, this is a "second" puberty, but for trans teens, this is usually not the case. children and teens who identify as transgender are usually put on puberty blockers until they are at LEAST 16, at which point they can choose to stop taking them and not transition, or stop taking them and start taking HRT.

The problem with all of this is that there are many places where, for a trans person to have a drivers license which has the correct gender marker on it, they must have had gender reassignment surgery.

3.) Can dysphoria be so entranched [...] continue experiencing it even after going through transition?

YES. The biggest way that this comes to the forefront is in people who are continually mis-gendered in public.

Let's put it this way - who doesn't want to be accepted for who they are? And how would you feel if you tried to be the person you are, but everyone was like "naw dawg. go do that other thing we're more comfortable with." Over and over. With everyone you met. constantly. Every day of your life.

For most people, "being who they are", means something simple like wearing different clothes, or outwardly associating with a fandom. It's a big part of who you are, but the fundamental "you" that people see every day isn't that different. People go out on a limb and get teased for wearing their patched-up punk jeans, and may not wear them again for years out of shame. Transition is generally accepted as being a significantly larger change than a clothing swap. So imagine how trans people feel when you say "Why can't you just be a girl and not a boy? Girls can have short hair and wear t-shirts too. I'm going to keep calling you Becky, not Beckett."

user-inactivated  ·  3479 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    "going goth" is (for some, not all), just a phase

Humph

Don't mean to derail your thread, it just amuses me that this is the example they chose.

kleinbl00  ·  3479 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Fuckin' A

user-inactivated  ·  3479 days ago  ·  link  ·  

What the fuck man? Do you just post every obscure thing you can find in hopes of being able to self reference yourself down the road? This is twice in one week.

kleinbl00  ·  3479 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    The goths were my tribe. Up in Seattle goths could really take it seriously; I mean, 11 months out of the year you can wear all black and suffer not in the slightest. What was interesting was how "tribal" it was - the Vogue goths didn't much talk to the Fenix goths didn't much talk to the Catwalk goths didn't much talk to the MachineWerks goths. I mixed at the Fenix and mixed at the Catwalk and was friends with DJs at the Vogue and MachineWorks. And we'd have massive Goth/industrial bands (Lords of Acid, Die Krupps, Laibach, Front 242) at the Fenix and we'd staff so light on the security, particularly compared to the cover band nights. I asked one of the security guys about it once. He scoffed. "These guys? They're too busy trying to out-cool each other to get in a fight."

    It's been 15 years and I'm still in touch with a lot of those folx.
coffeesp00ns  ·  3479 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    These guys? They're too busy trying to out-cool each other to get in a fight.

... amazing. I love it.

tacocat  ·  3479 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Surgical reassignment as goth remains the stuff of Naziesque experimentation

user-inactivated  ·  3479 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Anna-Varney Cantodea wasn't born a character from a F. W. Murnau movie.

user-inactivated  ·  3479 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I take umbrage to the line "Punks grow out of it."

user-inactivated  ·  3479 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yeah, there are plenty of old punks out there too. I guess the subcultures that don't endure also don't get remembered well enough to serve as examples like that. "New Romantics grow out of it" just doesn't work.

user-inactivated  ·  3479 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Somewhere out there is a man in his fifties rocking a Flock of Seagulls haircut. He has my respect.

kleinbl00  ·  3479 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Bitch, I saw him last weekend at the Whole Foods in Manhattan Beach. Skinny Jeans, pot belly, eyeliner and a Mercedes.

tacocat  ·  3479 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think you saw a former member of Flock of Seagulls

randomuser  ·  3478 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I don't know that it's former. I'm pretty sure they still play aroud here, saw the at Hollywood park after the horse races right before they stopped doing them.