This is my first post on #philosophy, so pardon me if I'm not meeting the expected criteria.. Just wanted to share a thought I had today. If all goes well, I would later like to share a quite deeper idea I've had that I would like your thoughts on.
I believe I have noticed a pattern (which will be the upcoming topic I mentioned) in what people do for "fun," or particular interests and activities that we engage that make us happy. What happy means I will not go into, interpret it however you wish.
This pattern I noticed is that the things we love all have a trait in common- to give ourselves a detachment, a transcendence, or an escape- from all the other elements of our life and environment. All these things we do that make us happy, that we love to do and experience, are appealing because we find ourselves enraptured by it, completely and entirely, so that we lose ourself inside it until it's time to return our regular life.
To use a very appropriate example- Philosophy. I personally love the feeling of losing myself in the question why, or digging deep into the structures and standards of society, humanity, existence, etc.. I love being in a discussion with a group of people that for hours guides us through our own minds and leaves us refreshed, or even exhausted, when we leave the room. People who like to listen to music will close their eyes and enter the world of the song. For some, washing the dishes or cleaning the house is a momentary meditation and focus of mind and body. Athletes drown in the out-of-body feeling of victory, the rush of adrenaline, the runner's high or the yogi's deep breaths as they break the barriers of their limits. Those who do drugs like weed, or drink, are a good example of directly consuming stimulants to alter your perception of all the data in the world projecting towards you. Better yet, a mathematician or physicist who drowns themselves in the problems and algorithm that break down their mental parameters and leave them in crazed states of transcendence as they step out of the box of their daily level of thought.
So I ask, on the topic of escape: why (the great Question!) do we live for the things that remove us from our daily lives?
It is my opinion that everyone secretly hates this place and wants to escape. As you mentioned, nearly every form of "entertainment" is escape. Every form of scientific research (guess what!) is escape. Nearly everything we do (besides basic survival) is escape. Now why is that? I've examined my own thoughts thoroughly enough to say that it's because I'm sick of this place. I don't know if that's other people's reasons, but it's surely my own. I've never particularly liked the traits of our world over any other fictional worlds. That's why I immerse myself. People don't hold my interest, I don't like "life". I delve into these worlds and notice a trend of what I enjoy. It's always the same stuff. Match? I like it. No match? I hate it. Always looking for the same people, the same ideas, the same routines, etc. I suppose I'm looking for an "ideal" world to immerse myself in. But really, all this is doing is driving my depression further. Every time I find something enjoyable, it ends. Every time I "meet" someone interesting (always in an anime or tv show) they have to leave. Or die. Or the show ends and I can't see them. It's gotten to the point where "life" is just an unending tv show I can't switch off of. I'm forced to interact in it against my will. I don't care for it, and really, I'd switch all of it in a heartbeat. I find myself digging into obscurer and obscurer media, just to find "good" stuff. Pop culture makes me sick to my stomach. I hate the trends, I hate the people, and I hate what's going on in the world. That's why I escape.
I think I have an important bit to add here. I must say I understand what you're saying and I've quite surely been there (of course ,I don't mean I know everything you're feeling exactly, but from what you're describing we have similar mindsets), and this is a very real, valid thought. But after a short while, especially after I really got deep into philosophy- particularly existentialism and things similar- I think I've climbed and now crossed All-This-Shit-Sucks Mountain. A lot of my friends have been telling me that I am very easily amused nowadays. This may seem funny/stupid but in reality I think it's because I've become intensely appreciative of certain things. Details. Fleeting moments, a specific stroke in a painting or the eyes of a girl that meets mine. The smell of fresh air after the rain, and the saturated tone of a leaf sticking to the wet ground. A single note or riff in a song can send shivers down my spine, and people/things that are usually ugly at a first glance catch my attention and sometimes leave me staring. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's because I got high for the first time last month, and it was on a very concentrated form of dabs. That helped, but it certainly isn't all it. I think it's easy to complain. It's easy to hate, it's easy to want to die. I'll be honest, we have every reason to die. But while you're living, while you're here, taking a moment to love and appreciate what you already love and appreciate really, really helps. And from there, you can start to find other things to love as well. I love tricep muscles, piano key mechanisms, the intricacy of gothic cathederals, and girls in sweatpants. I guess what I'm saying is, find everything you love, not just one thing, and stick to that shit.
Mind posting some links? I've hit a roadblock recently and would like some possibly new material to look at. I'v never been high and never plan to. Though your comment reminds me of other people who get high and then comment online. That little snippet read similarly. I was thinking the exact opposite. Most people seem to be happy-go-lucky and like literally anything I show them. If I think it sucks or is okay they'll usually love it. If i show them what I particularly like they either think it's the best thing ever or completely hate it. As for death, I don't think most people want to die. According to surveys, most people have never had the thought cross their minds. And I personally don't want to die, just be somewhere else. I don't really "love" anything. Never have. Lusted, sure. Enjoyed, totally. Liked? yup. Never loved though. Not one single thing. Be it person, experience, or thing. I threw around the word a lot when I was younger, but I realize that I didn't actually love anything that I said it towards. It was more of an immediate want/like. As I just mentioned I have yet to find anything like that. But things I enjoy are few and far between as well. Most things are obscure. My music I like have 10-50 listeners on Last.FM. The anime I watch is a bit more popular. As for just general things I like/would like to see more of, they virtually don't exist. Only in obscure places on the internet. And that's if I'm lucky. A lot of stuff I enjoy can't physically exist due to the laws of nature. I've surrounded myself with stuff I enjoy. That doesn't seem to be the problem. The problem is boredom. And socializing. I've grown tired of the things I enjoy, as they don't bring me anything new. And I can't discuss my thoughts or opinions with people as most people don't seem to care to. And 99% of the time I open my mouth (to anyone mind you) I'm ignored.especially after I really got deep into philosophy- particularly existentialism and things similar
Maybe it's because I got high for the first time last month, and it was on a very concentrated form of dabs.
I think it's easy to complain. It's easy to hate, it's easy to want to die.
But while you're living, while you're here, taking a moment to love and appreciate what you already love and appreciate really, really helps.
And from there, you can start to find other things to love as well.
I guess what I'm saying is, find everything you love, not just one thing, and stick to that shit.
Have you tried creating something on your own? If so, and if it hasn't gone well, you should really try again. You have ideas of things that appeal to you, even though as you said they might not exist, or aren't reachable. I think someone like you has the perfect potential of original production, especially if there aren't many people that you know that are like you. I dont necessarily mean art, either. I would love ;) to see some stuff, no matter how big or small, you might've created. Also, I will get you those links on philosophy, my club's facebook group has some great stuff.I've grown tired of the things I enjoy, as they don't bring me anything new. And I can't discuss my thoughts or opinions with people as most people don't seem to care to. And 99% of the time I open my mouth (to anyone mind you) I'm ignored.
Yea, I've definitely created quite a bit of things. Mostly just a lot of small test things. As I mentioned in my comments, I'm quite interested in video games and anime. And I've been this way since I was young as well. I was maybe 5 or 6 when I first started getting into computers. Around middle school I started learning how to program. And in high school I made a couple of (bad) games. More recently I've gotten one of my creations out to market (I worked with a small team). I have the link in my profile. It's a game called Q-Bitz and it's a puzzle platformer. I mostly just worked on the code (we had a single artist, and the idea was somewhat fleshed out by the time I joined). I've also made a few android apps. That's what I've been told, haha. There's an idea I have that I've been wanting to work on, and I've made a few failed attempts at it. But that idea is the reason why I stick around and work towards what I do. I'd like to see it completed :). yea.... I'm really bad at art. I don't know if it's just that I don't have the patience for it, or if it's a technical skill I'm lacking. I can come up with the image in my head, but can't get it down on paper. My little sister is good at drawing though. She constantly impresses me with stuff she drew. Awesome. I've mostly just been digging around websites and youtube videos and then finding similar content or expansions on certain ideas that came up. Thanks :)I think someone like you has the perfect potential of original production, especially if there aren't many people that you know that are like you.
I dont necessarily mean art, either.
Also, I will get you those links on philosophy, my club's facebook group has some great stuff.
Q-Bitz looks awesome :D Great concept. Keep creating, and be as proud of your failures as whatever you find to be a success, take it from Miles Davis, "There are no mistakes" ;) (this will not make sense if you don't know Miles Davis, going for a long shot here haha)
Perhaps that's part of the problem? Life does not exist in comfort, but in overcoming or resolving conflict. For me, surrounding myself with stuff I enjoy very much is the problem. I used to live a very comfortable life and in the end, it was boring. There are some days I wish I hadn't given it up, but I am working toward something new. I am working on changing the world I live in and not just for me, but so that it's a better place for other people too. Change is painful and not always a good thing, but in this universe we really have no choice. I disagree that people all secretly hate this place and want to escape. Why escape when one has opportunities to bend the world to one's will? The opportunities are not easy to find and not easy to take, but taking chances in life and following threads to new places is where the excitement is. If you're being ignored by the people you are currently interacting with, perhaps a change in your social circle might be good too. Everyone has a need to feel valued and acknowledged and an even greater need to feel important. These drives might seem pathetic, but many of the most successful people share these traits. From your comments, you seem to feel that there must be a point, or an objective to be accomplished. This is something that I don't subscribe to. I am alive and I am here to play. I am not suggesting that you don't take things seriously, but I am suggesting that it might be a good idea to play with your perceptions. There are so many amusing, fulfilling and worthwhile possibilities.I've surrounded myself with stuff I enjoy. That doesn't seem to be the problem. The problem is boredom.
That's such an interesting perspective... I have a few questions though. I don't understand. Why would you want to not be comfortable? Isn't that what nearly everyone is working for? To not be hungry. To have a nice house. To buy the latest gadgets and entertainment? You just stated that you didn't want to bend it to your will. That you don't want comfort. So why bend it then? And to answer your question, the point would be that there's no way in hell that it's possible to change that much of the world within the 60-100 years I have. You say that as if it's simple. In the 20 years I've been alive, I haven't found a single person that I find genuinely interesting. And most people I interact with don't care for what I say. Or are communicating with me because they need to for some reason. With no point or objective, there's literally no reason to do anything. Except for comfort/pleasure, which you just stated that "Life does not exist in". You state: "I am working on changing the world I live in and not just for me, but so that it's a better place for other people too." but that lacks a why. So they can help other people? If so, then it's just an endless chain of futile pointless work. I just can't see the logic behind all this. Don't live in comfort so you change the world for people who aren't you, in order for them to live in comfort which they shouldn't, so they can change the world for the next group of people? That makes no sense whatsoever.Life does not exist in comfort, but in overcoming or resolving conflict. For me, surrounding myself with stuff I enjoy very much is the problem.
Why escape when one has opportunities to bend the world to one's will?
If you're being ignored by the people you are currently interacting with, perhaps a change in your social circle might be good too.
From your comments, you seem to feel that there must be a point, or an objective to be accomplished. This is something that I don't subscribe to.
I never wrote that I don't want to be comfortable. All the things you mention are things that people feel they do not have at that point in their lives. This is not what I wrote. If you choose to read it in this fashion, by all means. It is simple. It is not easy. Simple and easy are different words with different, though often convergent meanings. So what? There are still things you can do. It's easy and very comfortable to sit back and criticize things. It takes real effort to feel alive. That's the point I'm making. You're 20 years old. That is really young to have everything all figured out. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd much rather live my way than yours.I don't understand. Why would you want to not be comfortable? Isn't that what nearly everyone is working for? To not be hungry. To have a nice house. To buy the latest gadgets and entertainment?
You just stated that you didn't want to bend it to your will. That you don't want comfort. So why bend it then? And to answer your question, the point would be that there's no way in hell that it's possible to change that much of the world within the 60-100 years I have.
You say that as if it's simple. In the 20 years I've been alive, I haven't found a single person that I find genuinely interesting. And most people I interact with don't care for what I say. Or are communicating with me because they need to for some reason.
With no point or objective, there's literally no reason to do anything.
I like your perspective on all this. Don't have anything to add really, but I fancy to agree with you. Edit: As an afterthought, I butchered that expression. I think I shall bend it to my will. bends expression ah, now it fits what I meant perfectly.
Sorry for inundating you, but I was wondering if you could elaborate on what you meant in saying every form of scientific research is escape
Just a list: Oculus Rift and every other VR and Controller Tech: Obvious. Helps escape into virtual worlds via more direct methods (control, vision, sound, etc). Space Research: Escape earth to go amongst stars, planets, etc. Working on living on other planets. There's been research on mind control and reading. And creating visuals out of thoughts. Again, directly ties in with the VR stuff, as well as extracting thoughts to examine them. There's weapon research, which is just faster ways of removing people. Which is changing the world because you don't like the current one. Travel: basically escaping the current location and going somewhere else faster. Then there's computers, phones, etc: which are all being tied into our massive virtual world we call the internet. Which is drastically different than the "real" world. There's a lot more as well, but that's to give you a basic idea. Most research tends to be towards the escapist side of things. Though I'd imagine there'd be research that doesn't do that as well (none that comes to mind though).
My god, that's genius. This is all amazing, great interpretation :) thank you for the insight.There's weapon research, which is just faster ways of removing people. Which is changing the world because you don't like the current one.
Maybe I like my life more than most people, but I think escapism is a sad way to live. I do things for fun and leisure, but they're not escapes; they're just my life. For example, I am fortunate to have two life passions, science and hockey. One is my livelihood, and the other is my favorite pastime. Both are part of my being, and I wouldn't be the same person without them. Yes, I drink beer and whiskey and watch TV and movies, too. These are things I do for fun, and they make life interesting. They aren't there to escape from reality; they are there to add to it. When I was young, I did a ton of drugs. That is escapism. It's escapism not specifically because it was drugs and not some other substitute. It was escapism, because I did it because I hated myself and saw no great and viable alternative. Wanting to unwind is normal. Wanting to escape (at least, wanting to do it often; obviously, we all have bad days from time to time) is a sign that something is wrong, IMHO. Life can be good if you let it.
I think this is an awesome new perspective. But, how do you differentiate between having to escape and having to unwind? It seems like youre saying that your life when you were young made escape appealing because you hated yourself. Do you love yourself (or hate yourself less) because youve survived long enough by escaping? Or were you able to 'quit' escapism because your life got better? I think, people making fun and happiness a part of their lives balanced to the work and pain are often the happiest strongest in character. However, those who simply arent happy, should they avoid escaping as well?
Escaping is the act of giving up on daily life for a short period of time. Eventually, one has to return, and probably dreads that fact. Unwinding is just stress relief. For example, I love my job, but at times it requires me to concentrate for many hours at a stretch. I can give me a giant headache. So, when I get home on those types of days the first thing I want to do is turn on some music and crack open a beer. It's not because I need to get away. I just want my headache to subside and my blood pressure to drop; have to relax before I get back to it the next day. But even though I need a break, I want to get back to it; I don't fear it. Not sure I can explain it any better than that. One learns to live with one's own faults with age, I think. I suspect you're a lot younger than me. I'm 31 currently. Teen angst was a powerful force in my life, as it is for a lot of people. It's easy to sour on the world in general, because there's a lot of really fucked up things out there, and it even feels fucked up on the inside at times. One starts to think, "What's the point?" But, then, if you're lucky, you figure out what the point is. The point is to find something that you love and throw yourself behind it. When you realize this (realize it for yourself and not because an older, wiser person told you so), you will be all the happier for it. This is all not to say that life doesn't totally suck at times. Tragedies happen. Bad luck happens. But if you're happy in your underlying fundamentals, you'll find a way to heal.But, how do you differentiate between having to escape and having to unwind?
Do you love yourself (or hate yourself less) because youve survived long enough by escaping? Or were you able to 'quit' escapism because your life got better?
I very much liked your first explanation, well said :) this post regarding love in life, and that I elaborated on a little bit on this thread is what I keep in mind whenever my teenage angst (im 15) gets the better of me. I don't know if there's one thing that I love yet. It may be that I don't know love yet, though I could swear that I have felt it. Anyway, I'm just sticking around in life until it turns up.
thenewgreen had a podcast on fun. You can watch the video version here: http://hubski.com/pub?id=71891I believe I have noticed a pattern (which will be the upcoming topic I mentioned) in what people do for "fun," or particular interests and activities that we engage that make us happy.
I appreciate it. This is an awfully dangerous place to come if you're trying to focus on life :D