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comment by pseydtonne
pseydtonne  ·  4067 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Should a high school diploma be required to vote?

The more I hear people wanting to test for voter qualifications, the more I worry that fascism is inches away.

We need to flip the script. Make voting mandatory: when you hit 18, you register to vote and pay a fine for failing to register and/or vote. Australia does this.

In return you have to want not to vote. "None of the above" costs money. If you don't like the candidates, write yourself in.

Restricting who can vote more than judges who should be a citizen: it makes the judge more powerful. It's a tool to wield more power.

We should probably bring back mandatory national service while we're at it. A nation needs a shared experience of its goals -- not just military ones, either. We don't need to make up wars to give everyone a shared experience. We have enough under-educated children, enough stuff to fix. Heck, it could simply be a process of "Bob knows how to build computers and Jane knows how to drive trucks. Jane will teach mornings and Bob will teach afternoons. Next week, Sam teaches cooking from scratch and everyone works at the soup kitchen each evening -- they need to fix the boiler there, too."





saldejums  ·  4067 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It is utterly stupid. Firstly, nobody has ever became nice by force. There are no decent people to vote for. My country's population 55% are left leaning, but we have never had leftist party since USSR fell. Your nationalistic teachers never tell who killed millions of jews, deported millions of natives and recolonized the land, they simply say "communism" or "socialism". Those are two terms derogated to synonyms.

I am aware that in The land of the Free you have only two parties at all - what on earth a choice is that?

Take a look at Russia, Belarus. The voting there is for idiots who still think that they count. No electorate matters there, the elections are clearly rigged, just like in most of Africa.

I do not vote since there is nobody who represents my values and there will never be anybody who represents all my values, who listens my problems and who cares enough. I do not want to participate in your rigged elections.

I despise your fascist regime and fascist ideas.

pseydtonne  ·  4066 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Uhh... okay. I honestly have no idea how to respond to that.

I hope you feel better after all that ranting. Would you like a beer?

You must not be the only person wanting to explode at me. You got three dots so far.

saldejums  ·  4066 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I honestly have no idea how many dots I have. I use that zen setting thing and like to be oblivious to this election.

I just find your point of view offensive. Firstly it is immoral to exclude somebody from elections because he does not have highschool diploma - we all live in the same pot and we all should be equal part of the soup. If we even further ban electorate - immigrants, sex offenders, people who use instagram, far leftists, far rightists, muslims, blacks - the election becomes pointless elite gathering. We all should be equal and nobody should float on top. Those who want to get to the power and equally those who want to help people will find how to promote themselves. Protip: good ideas do not need advertisements, they are spoken about.

On the other hand, if there are nobody who represents ANY of my values at all, I am not exaggerating, my country does not have any party that even thinks of leaning left, who should I vote for? Why should I waste my time, energy and life to go and elect "the lesser evil" who will continue his fascist oppression and command everybody when and how to vote, how to think and who to hate? "You are scum because you do not vote" is invalid. I cannot find the source to prove, but in some European countries if notable part of population boycotts or ignores the elections, it is considered civil disobedience and new government can't be formed. Heck, the Belgians lived 591 days without government!

If you ran a government, oh you would have a hard time running it.

We should free and liberate people, make lives easier, take care of the things what people do not want to do every day, like fighting in wars, repairing roads, collect their own wheat every day, put in sewer system and worry if they will not freeze in winter or if they will be saved in spring floods. Forcing yourself on others is wrong. If you have your representative and think that he knows better what you want, how to care for you, how make your life easier - go on and vote. Forcing me to vote for your idea? I do not want to be responsible for somebody I do not know, if I doubt his good intentions, if I know that he had acted against my ideals and values.

As Boris Yeltsin supposedly said, "You can build a throne with bayonets, but you can't sit on it long."

/Yet I am only some random creep on the internet who does not like oppression, dictatorship and fascism you propagate/

pseydtonne  ·  4066 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Let's be clear: I am not the person promoting a high school diploma requirement.

Stagnant_Pig proposed the question, and did not even assert agreement with it. I am opposed to the high school requirement. Please check which chain you are following when you reply.

Second of all, why do you need there to be a party for you to vote for someone? We vote for individuals. Sure, we get some weird examples such as H. Ross Perot, who ran with only the vaguest of party affiliations. I suppose Bored Billionaire Party wasn't all that catchy, but it wasn't Democrat or Republican.

I spoke against fascism and you accuse me of it. You accuse me of my opponent's stance and built a straw man smorgasbord. Please review. Please check to whom you reply.

saldejums  ·  4066 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Sorry for misunderstanding. Have a nice day :)

lil  ·  4066 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Hey Saldejums, If you are indeed from Belarus, I heard that it is terrible there from a recent migrant to Canada. I asked her why she wanted to leave Belarus and she had a long list of awfulness. She and her husband were both doctors in Belarus and she said they were paid very little and treated badly, she said that you have elections but IT IS NOT DEMOCRACY. She waited 8 years to immigrate and then had great difficulty becoming a doctor in Canada. It's very hard for her here, but she feels more free.

I understand very little about Belarus, but I have no doubt that it is as you say:

    I do not vote since there is nobody who represents my values and there will never be anybody who represents all my values, who listens my problems and who cares enough
Kafke  ·  4067 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    We need to flip the script. Make voting mandatory: when you hit 18, you register to vote and pay a fine for failing to register and/or vote.

This is how you get even more ignorant votes. People will just do it because they have to, and a lot of people will probably pick one at random (not caring about politics).

    "Bob knows how to build computers and Jane knows how to drive trucks. Jane will teach mornings and Bob will teach afternoons. Next week, Sam teaches cooking from scratch and everyone works at the soup kitchen each evening -- they need to fix the boiler there, too."

Fuck requiring everyone to teach. Some people are awful teachers. And making it mandatory will result in people not caring about teaching. Have you ever been taught by someone who doesn't want to be there (regardless of how well they know the topic)? It sucks.

These suggestions would make me want to move out of the country more than I already do.

exe  ·  4067 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    This is how you get even more ignorant votes. People will just do it because they have to, and a lot of people will probably pick one at random (not caring about politics).

Arguably, this prevents political extremism, causing all of the major parties to the centre. Pushing more voters to vote prevents political influence by lobby groups.

Stagnant_Pig  ·  4067 days ago  ·  link  ·  

While this would prevent lobby influence, if we have (hypothetically) a large population of uneducated people with the economic understanding of a twelve-year-old, then we basically have a group of twelve-year-olds voting. This would probably only be a problem in highly impoverished areas but a problem, none the less. It could easily be mitigated by policies, but that would clash with the whole "everyone votes" idea.

exe  ·  4067 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think I might have to agree with you slightly. However, on the other hand you have a large group of informed youth that very rarely vote. In Australia only 40% of (relatively informed) youth voted, despite it being compulsory. In some cases, you actually need to give a people a kick in the backside, people that are actually informed but might be sitting in the political centre, or just unhappy with all major parties, to get them to vote.

pseydtonne  ·  4067 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Ah, so your priority is that you don't like the voting results of your fellow citizens. We need to address their ignorance (as well as your distaste for it... and mine) instead of declaring them unworthy of their franchise.

We have let the few create the knowledge that leads to votes. At one time this was necessary: distribution of information cost money, so those with money could control the information. Now those with money control the spin of information using the older psychological tools along with newer technological tools.

We need to teach people how propaganda works.

Fear of the ill-educated does not mean they can be repressed -- that treats the problem as inherent instead of a result. It's the obligation of those that "get it" to get more of them to get their own addiction to valid information. Those that can teach, should teach and should get the chance to do it.

Sure, many people do not want to teach or are bad teachers. It was an example.

I guess you should ask yourself: if you want to leave so bad, where will you go that will accept you and won't have the same problem? Frankly, the Information Age has flushed a lot of dumb people out of the bushes and into the chat rooms. They aren't just an American problem: they are a density problem.

Kafke  ·  4067 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Ah, so your priority is that you don't like the voting results of your fellow citizens.

Not so. I'm happy with either choice, as long as the person voting is educated about what they are voting for. Just as I don't mind someone disagreeing on any topic, provided they know why they are disagreeing and have a thought process for it.

Ignorant voting is no better than just choosing randomly.

    instead of declaring them unworthy of their franchise.

I don't think anyone is unworthy. But you can't really vote or decide what you prefer if you don't know what you are voting for. Simple as that.

    Fear of the ill-educated does not mean they can be repressed -- that treats the problem as inherent instead of a result. It's the obligation of those that "get it" to get more of them to get their own addiction to valid information. Those that can teach, should teach and should get the chance to do it. Sure, many people do not want to teach or are bad teachers. It was an example.

You miss the point. The point is that I don't want to be forced to do shit against my will. As it stands, I live in a free country, and I'd like to keep it that way.

    I guess you should ask yourself: if you want to leave so bad, where will you go that will accept you and won't have the same problem? Frankly, the Information Age has flushed a lot of dumb people out of the bushes and into the chat rooms. They aren't just an American problem: they are a density problem.

As it stands, I don't relate to people where I currently am at all. I don't like the same food, the same entertainment, the same day-to-day things, etc. Honestly, I'd just like to go somewhere pretty much completely different.

As for the "intelligence" problem, that's unfortunately something I have to live with. It's obvious that it's a world-wide problem, not just a specific country. I'm just saying mandatory teaching isn't the way to go about fixing it.