Bill Moyers did a television series on PBS 20 years ago on Genesis, a book in the Christian Bible. The series was based on a roundtable of people from all walks of life, and all religions or lack of religion.
Genesis: A Living Conversation
By the time I saw it, the conversations were over. I had no one to discuss the topics with. I've wanted to discuss them with a group. Perhaps Hubski is that group. There seem to be a few people here who are interested in religious conversations, perhaps from a secular view. I'm hoping that levydb might become interested in the discussion.
The series is a 10 part series. If there is any interest, I'll add more posts from the series. Unfortunately, I can't find the video of the series online except for the clip with the transcript. The linked piece is a transcript.
The first part of the series is from the beginning of Genesis and is called "Temptation".
In the video clip in this piece, I'm struck by how confrontational the theists appear. And I'm only guessing they're the theists based on their arguments. The secular people seem to visibly look like they were struck as they lean back in their seats to defensively give their view. Two people tried to explain that they were just reading this as though they were reading any other story. Other people appeared insulted by that even though that was the premise of the discussion.
Several of the people talked about how this is the first glimpse of God that people see in the Bible. The description of him tells about how he created humans and how he views them.
Interjecting here, a pastor once noted that God has to be relatable. If God were an alien who had no common characteristics with humans and no way of communicating at all, there wouldn't be any connection.
It's interesting to see the split between those people who see the God in the story as a benevolent being and those who see him as more demanding.
Many seemed to feel that eating the fruit was about the ability to make free choices and then to see the morality of their choices.
The part where a couple people noted that it was our (human's fault) for death, evil and suffering showed to me some of the differences between religions that Leon was pointing out. There was a lot of blame to go around in that story.
They go on to talk about how Eve shared the fruit with Adam, Adam tells God about it and then God subjugates her for it. At least one person was upset at the misogyny in that.
At the end, they talk about whether the story is descriptive or prescriptive.
Here's the story they're interpreting.
And, after woman was created she dwelled in the garden with Adam and all its creatures and all its beauty including the trees God planted there.
Now the serpent was the most shrewd of all the creatures. He said to the woman,
“Why don’t you eat from every tree in the garden?” The woman told the serpent that they couldn’t eat from the Tree of Knowledge.
They must not eat from that tree nor touch it, or they would die. “You will not die!” said the serpent. “Your eyes will be opened, you will gain knowledge and become like the gods yourselves. You will understand the difference between good and evil.”
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, lovely to look at, and could make her wise, she took the fruit and ate. She gave it to Adam and he took it and ate it too. And the eyes of both were opened. They knew they were naked; so they made clothes for themselves with fig leaves. And as they walked together in the garden they heard the voice of God in the cool of the day, and so they are among the trees.
“Where are you?” God asked.
“I heard your voice in the garden,” Adam said, “and I was afraid because I was naked.”
And the Lord God asked, “Who told you you were naked? Did you eat of the tree that was forbidden?” Then Adam told the Lord that the woman had given him the fruit from the tree. The Lord asked the woman, “What have you done?” And she said,”The serpent tricked me and I ate.”
“You are cursed,” the Lord said to the serpent. “Because you did this you will crawl on your belly in the dust from now on;'”You — and — the woman will be enemies.”
“And you,” God said to the woman. “Because you have done this, sorrow and pain will go with the bearing of your children and still you will desire your husband he will rule over you.”
And to Adam the Lord said, “Because you have listened to your wife and not to your God, you will toil and sweat to bring food from the ground. For you are dust and to dust you shall return.”
Then Adam named his wife Eve because she was the mother of all the living. And the Lord sent Adam and Eve out of the garden. God said, “Now that man has become like us and knows good from evil, what if he should reach out and take also from the tree of life and live forever”
So God banished Adam and Eve from the garden and placed winged creatures and a flaming sword to guard the Tree of Life at the east of Eden.
From your background and experience with or without religion, what does it mean to you?
The entire story of Adam and Eve confuses me, and I rarely look at it as anything but a story.
Little back story on myself I was raised Roman Catholic, but grew out of organized religion over time finding far too many incongruous ideas. So, Adam and Eve are newly created beings by God. He places them in this garden anew, we can essentially tell they have no knowledge of morals, reason, etc. He tells them not to eat of the tree of knowledge. Now the assumption is that until they eat from the tree of knowledge, they don't know what is right or wrong. My question then is how on earth do they differentiate that not eating the fruit is good or bad? How do they know the serpent is bad? How do they know God is good? How could God blame them for doing something they lacked the knowledge to understand completely? It's like telling a child not to touch the stove because it will hurt them. Some children try to touch it anyway. The usual thing a parent does is not keep the child in a room with a stove, until they are old enough to understand the danger. This entire story paints God in a really weird light because it seems like his plan was for Adam and Eve to eat of the fruit in the end.
Also the other part of the story that is just plain weird is when God casts out Adam and Eve because they could become like him if they eat from the tree of life. That is a really weird and scary implications for Roman Catholicism, who like to believe that God is literally the beginning and the end. I mean it's just weird for them to set the tone of the Bible by saying human kind is half-way to Godhood.