So I've been doing some thinking. And nothing good ever comes from when I think about problems that are unthinkable. Unsolvable mysteries of the universe that can really only be answered by doing one specific action which you don't want to do. Or do you?

Quantum Suicide has popped up in my mind yet again. To quickly summarize, it's an act of life/death that determines whether Everett's Many Worlds interpretation is true. Here's a wiki link. Naturally, it seems like a pretty neat idea. You keep going until something happens. Tempting fate. In every world where you die, you won't be able to observe because you are dead. So you keep living. Of course, this is to the horror of all of your peers as in the other world, you die.

But what would happen if you repeated this experiment forever? Eventually something would need to happen. The universe would barge in and ruin the experiment. It'd have to. Some way or the other, you'd eventually die. It's the natural conclusion of the universe. But is this final death (not caused by the quantum machine) your "actual" death? Or simply the longest living you? When you die by this other cause, do you not see that due to the many worlds interoperation and you get some other event?

Going further, could we say that any death would and could not happen from our perspective then? Sure, we see others die, but they are consciously observing past that point in some other identical branched world. At least, some form of them is.

But what happens at the end of that road? Eventually all of you will die. Does this imply you'll simply live every possible iteration of your life, until you run out? You'll die in every possible thinkable way? Every quantum "choice" is exhausted. No more worlds to explore. What happens then?

My personal viewpoint (which I've deduced during another time) is that consciousness and subjective perspective is simply a function of the current universe, and that it's not unique to any specific individual. A good way to see this: compare your perspective of you five minutes from now to someone else five minutes from now. They are identical. You can't see shit. You can't perceive what they see. Now try it in the past. Same result. What about an alternate you, doing something different than what you are doing right now (dying in the machine instead of living)? Can't. See. Shit.

So in terms of exhausting all of your options, it seems the logical choice would be to pick another observer, and exhaust all of their "paths". In essence, it's just a much more complex version of a visual novel. With each VN choice being the equivalent of the quantum mechanics at play. Just add in more playable characters and you essentially have life.

Somehow, no matter how I approach the problem, I keep returning to this point. Infinitely many perspectives, infinitely many choices. With no point, no purpose.

And I just think about how ridiculous it is that I'm simply observing one of these infinitely many paths. But what's that say about you? You are not the "same" you that started reading this. And the "me" that's typing this is not the same "me" that started typing this. Yet we are.

It's kind of a depressing thought. No one I've talked to or seen is the same person that I'll see ever again. And yet they are. In a weird sort of way.

In essence, I/You are just this weird emergence that's simply floating around, observing what there is to be observed ala the Anthropic Principle. We observe because we can. Every possible observance has been made.

But what is this "thing" that is observing? And why does it seem to be going by second by second? I've pondered this particular question for a while, and the best I could come up with is the anthropic principle. It observes because it's possible to observe.

I've recently stumbled upon a phrase that made me reconsider this question. "There can't be nothing, as having nothing means you have the concept of nothing".

And I can't see any faults with that. Even if we could have "nothing", there is something. I can observe it. I know I'm here. But I can't be sure I'm here in the same way when I'm in a dream I can't be sure I'm there either.

And then you get your perspective of being in a dream in a dream. Like inception. Could we be in a life in a life? Does it matter?

So there's something because there can't be nothing. And we are observing because we can. There's infinitely many different "versions" of the world we live in. And an infinite amount of "time" (which is really just a location) to explore those worlds.

The only way any of this makes remotely any sense is if it all just didn't exist. Nothing. It's counter intuitive, as we can observe. But it has to be both infinitely massive and complex, yet entirely simple and nothingness. We can't just have "something". That'd leave too many "whys" open.

It all just makes my brain run around in circles, leaving me with a melancholic view and no answers. If I think about it for too long, I start to get feelings of dissociation and depersonalization. And I take a break, and later my mind eventually wanders to this topic again and again.

I can't help but think I'm trapped. There's no way out, no point. It's the ultimate hell. Nothing means anything, everything feels both intensely real, yet everything feels fake. Death isn't a way out, as it'll just result in another life, somewhere somewhen else. Or it might just be a complete failure at every attempt.

Yet, I can observe everyone else die, only to think that I was/will be/am them, and know what will happen to them. They/I are stuck in this labyrinth just as I am.

And I just thought of something. That's why people try to solve the mysteries. People go into science, math, chemistry, etc. To solve these problems. Perhaps they understood this long ago, and the current me is just figuring it out.

I tell all this to people, and all I get in response is "yea, it looks like hell, but keep going and there's something great waiting for you". Yet, I can't seem to find it, no matter how hard I look. It's all pointless and futile. Every road is a dead end.

The only way out seems to be to create a world of my own, one that I want to be in. Or join someone else's (my own) world. I've done this mostly via games and tv. But then I realized... There's no real "point" to wanting to be in these worlds. What will I do once I'm there? Ask the same questions. Be bothered by the same lack of response. And all of a sudden I'm in a different world yet still locked in the same labyrinth of questions.

All I know is that those worlds seem hell of a lot nicer to spend time figuring this stuff out in.

Ugggggh. I can't figure it out. I feel like I've come up with the answer, but it's so unsatisfying and still makes me wonder. My ultimate question isn't answered. Why? Why must "I" wander pointlessly around? But I know that. "I" must exist because 1. "I" am observing, and 2. In the world of nothing and infinity, there must be both nothing and everything. And as such, "I" must exist. It's like getting to the end of a book, just to be disappointed by the end. There's nothing you can do to fix it, and you must simply live with it. Forever. In every possible configuration of the universe.

But what happens at the end? And the answer is: nothing. There is no end because there's no time. So naturally the progress of perspectives must be circular. Just like circles. And the universe. Infinitely so. So infinite and long, that it wraps around and begins again.

We get that with a lot of things. Like the earth. or our bodies. And the big bang/crunch. Space is suspected to wrap around. Well, go on forever and then wrap around. Temperature goes so low that it is infinitely high. It wraps around after an infinite value.

I suppose the reason I'm so upset and bothered is that I've always just wanted to know. I wanted to know "why". I've never stopped asking. Not once. And now my why has ran into a circle. The answer to my "why" was answered, and all I want to know is "why is it like that?" "why is that the answer?" It's the answer because it has to be. But what determines that something has to be in some way? Nothing. And everything. Something can be some way here, and some other way somewhere else. Both possibilities exist, and so they do. I'm simply observing this one.

It seems like everyone else either knows this as a fact of life, or just doesn't care. As if they don't care about the whole reason they can observe in the first place. Just watching people makes me sad. What do they do? Facebook. Reddit. Hubski. Youtube. Hell, maybe they'll even work or go to class. Just mindlessly. Without care. over and over. For all of time. You bring it up to them, and they'll have one of three actions. The first is be outraged and ignore you. The second is be interested, and think about it for a little, and ultimately dismiss it. The third becomes like you. Curious and are unable to come to a conclusion.

It's hard to be motivated and happy when you realize you are stuck. I guess some people would take it as a sign that they can do whatever, but you hardly see those people. And they don't realize what "forever" is. Or perhaps they do and don't care.

But how can one not care about their entire existence?

All I can come up with, is that ignorance is bliss. It really, truly, is. You don't have to think about all this. You can go about your mindless existence without many interruptions, and you can go back to your scheduled programming.

But all I can think is that it's fake. All of it. Nothing is "real" about this. We pretend like it is, but it isn't. Everyone goes about their pretend jobs, doing their pretend work, exchanging pretend play money. And for what? Some use it on distractions. To escape this world. This was me for a while. I still do that to an extent, but I don't know why. Other's use their pretend play money on exploring this world. But that's really no different than exploring the pretend play worlds that other people pretend worked on. Then there's the people who give it away. Probably because they realized that they don't know why they got it in the first place, or perhaps because they think someone else can tell them what they want to spend it on. But those people don't, as they fall into one of the categories like everyone else.

And while this happens, all I can think is how pointless it is. Yet, there's no solution. Dying results in another pointless world. Yet, anything I could physically do would ultimately be ineffective.

The only possible thing I could think of is to travel to these other worlds for the purpose of meeting myself. Or maybe trying to destroy this mind virus and solve the problem of nothing and infinity. But that wouldn't result in anything. As it's logically impossible.

I can't figure out what I'm missing. And I'm doomed because of it. Stuck in this awful labyrinth. Unable to do anything.

kleinbl00:

So many misconceptions. So many conclusions leapt to. So much suffering and turmoil as a consequence. Here, walk with me:

* * *

The first thing you need to understand is Irwin Schroedinger came up with the cat in the box not to say "whoa - half-dead cat" but to point out that at an intellectual level we're all comfortable with, quantum superposition is fuckin' CRAZY SHIT, yo. "Schroedinger's Cat" is classic reductio ad absurdum - Einstein argued that a pile of gunpowder necessarily contains granules that are both exploded and unexploded in their quantum states and Schroedinger said "if you think that way then let me demonstrate this undead cat to you, you crazy-haired weirdo." Even Einstein called quantum entanglement "spooky action at a distance" and when the guy who came up with relativity uses an adjective like "spooky" you can rest assured that quantum reality is probably not familiar to Newtonian reality.

The next thing you should know is that quantum suicide is, in popular internet parlance, "beating the dead horse" of Schroedinger's Cat. It doesn't say "whoa dude we're, like, immortal" it says "the many worlds hypothesis is completely alien to our understanding of how the world works."

So let's take this back to physics, and let's take this back to reality. In physics, what Schroedinger's Cat really says is "quantum superposition requires an observer in order to change reality." That's the takeaway. It's powerful stuff - if you push it to extremes, it says we're all Gods because if we're not watching, the universe doesn't happen (yet for some reason, the stoners and pop psychologists latch onto the half-dead cat). In physics, what quantum suicide really says is "no observer necessary, your choices aren't yes/no they're yes/different yes and it is only through observation that we are aware of the decision." Quantum suicide is a thought experiment that takes the God out of quantum mechanics, nothing more.

Because here's the real takeaway of the Many Worlds hypothesis - for every wave function that collapses there's a new universe in which the wave function doesn't collapse BUT we can have no interaction with that other universe because quantum mechanics. That other universe is forever walled off away from us behind an impenetrable barrier of physics. It is dead to you. You have no interaction with it. Every single time a particle has to choose whether or not to be a wave, we shed a new alternate universe.

So who the fuck is "we"?

My wife is on the couch next to me. In the time it took me to write that sentence, the universe has shed an infinite number of wives on an infinite number of couches that I'll never sit on. Up until I started typing, we were all on the same couch… but that's only because all the quanta fell the right way each and every time.

Look at it this way: The things in your life are in your life because against the impossible odds of infinity to one they tumbled through the universe's Pachinko parlor the exact same way as you. You exist in a universe in which every possible decision made at every possible increment of time on every possible level at every possible scale of the universe came out

exactly

the

same.

Kind of fucking amazing, isn't it? The people that are around you are, at a quantum level, around you because they beat the odds that make the Lottery look like a coin toss. And many of them will be with you for decades. Probability is steadfastly against you churning right along - hell, probability is against the whole universe not flying apart through entropy! - yet there you are, worrying about other universes and how much time you waste on Reddit.

It's not doing you any good.

There are two ways to think about this: The first is that in this universe, the one you are in, an awful lot has to go right in order for it to continue. Fortunately it's doing so, shall continue to do so, and will not stop doing so no matter what you do or don't do. Your solitary intellect is a probability fan across the infinite brilliance of all that could be - and that which is 'you' is but one tiny, contiguous line amongst countless, untold filaments. All those other filaments are walled off from you, so best get busy interacting with the other people that are, improbably, still on your own timeline. As far as I'm concerned, do whatever you want so long as you're having fun - there's no test at the end, there's no extra credit, and we only get so many laps around the sun.

The other way to think about this is that for every decision you've ever regretted, for everything that never happened no matter how strenuously you wished it would, there's a universe out there where it did. You did date that girl in high school. You did pick up guitar at 17. You did enlist in the Army. Somewhere out there, beyond all but imagination, all those things are happening. You are leading every possible life you could possibly lead, you are taking every opportunity you could possibly take, you are suffering every misfortune you could possibly befall. You already are dead countless trillions upon trillions upon trillions of times. And, hey - in some universe somewhere (countless universes somewhere) you're going to live forever.

But not in this one.

The Many Worlds Hypothesis is something to contemplate. It's something to think about. it's not something to live your life by. It's a shorthand to demonstrate to fellow quantum physicists that if they persist in thinking of quantum physics in terms of Newtonian physics, they will lose their minds. Here in the real world, all we see is the macro. My wife got up from the couch and headed to the bedroom. If I walk over there, I'll see her. The sun will come up tomorrow and my car keys are going to be right where I left them, presuming my daughter doesn't choose to move them again.

If you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

Friedrich Nietzsche

Do NOT engage the universe in a staring contest. It will win. Instead focus on your place in it and make sure it's where you want to be.

Snap out of it. Quantum physics is fucking rad, not this maudlin shit you're making it out to be. Sometimes it's even funny.


posted 3748 days ago