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Isherwood  ·  652 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Pubski: October 4, 2017

The manager who gave me my job left. Now I'm worried I'm running out of advocates. I've been running the training program without a budget for two years now and the new managers want me to "improve my numbers," but don't seem to be willing to invest.

This is lame.

Isherwood  ·  653 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Rise of the yimbys: the angry millennials with a radical housing solution

I read this thing recently that really stuck with me - social media and the perception of perfection has resulted in lower confidence among millennials. Where ever it was, it was a throw away argument, a stepping stone on the path to a point about millennials in the workplace.

But it did resonate with me. This idea that the world we were brought up seeing was a hyper reality, realer than real, and because our actuality is lame by comparison, we don't have the right to assault the rest of the world with our flawed ideas.

That thought bounces around in my head every time I see a boomer (or now, Xer) explain who we are, what we believe, how we think, and why we act the way we do. When I see these, I feel deep down that the assumptions are mistaken, and someone needs to set them right. But Who Am I to be the one to do the correcting? My articles aren't bouncing around the globe, my voice isn't playing from every car, my video isn't impressed on a million screens. It's better to stay quiet and let the people who know be the ones who speak.

But as I get older and the curtain inches its way back, I see more and more that those unassailable people don't necessarily know more than me, they're just more confident in their knowledge.

I think movements like these yimbys are a counter culture to that feeling of insecurity. These are people who are willing to start a fight and make a fuss for what they think is right. I hope to see more such confidence from my generation, regardless of what the analysts say.

WanderingEng  ·  653 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    the perception of perfection has resulted in lower confidence among millennials

I'm not a millennial, but this resonates with me, too. One of the things I've learned about myself in the last few years in my mid/late 30s is being adequate at something can be really rewarding.

Isherwood  ·  653 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think millennial is a really bad way to group people into cohorts - we consider horoscopes to be a bunch of malarkey, but if you make the grouping years instead of months you're suddenly working with a legitimate categorization.

WanderingEng  ·  653 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I agree. At best, we can group eras, recognizing there is overlap throughout. I remember talk of the MTV generation, but I was a little too young to be in it. I'm also a little too old to be a millennial; I didn't get my first mobile phone until I was 23, a Nokia something. Economic and local differences further separate people. Was my older sister in the MTV generation when cable TV wasn't even offered in my small town?

Probably a better way is to think of it as opportunities available or denied to people.

weewooweewoo  ·  653 days ago  ·  link  ·  

My therapist is having me focus on "Good enough is really good" this week. Rationally, it's perfect, but in my day to day, it's so alien.

WanderingEng  ·  652 days ago  ·  link  ·  

My epiphany came after my first half marathon. My time would best be described as adequate. I finished. But it wasn't my own time that changed my perspective, it was going back to the finish line and watching the other runners. They were ten or twenty minutes after my already "adequate" time. They were so excited to finish. The crowd cheered.

The race winner was probably 50 minutes ahead of me. They might have been home and showered before I finished. But just doing ok was a cause for celebration. The other runners didn't need to win to celebrate, and neither did I.

b_b  ·  652 days ago  ·  link  ·  

That depends though, doesn't it? When striving to create, "good enough" is essentially failure. Good enough might get you a paycheck, but it won't lead to satisfaction. If you're picking on yourself about relatively trivial things, then by all means stop. But in your work, your meaningful relationships, etc, good enough is far from good enough.

kleinbl00  ·  653 days ago  ·  link  ·  

The future's already here, it's just isn't very evenly distributed.

- William Gibson

I got my hackles up over you slagging on Xers so I looked up your journalist. You're right, she started working in '93. So... sorry 'bout that. Lemme just say that from my lofty perch over here?

Look. We grew up in the 'boomers' shadow. We're the original shiftless kids. All the slag the 'boomers are throwing at you they stopped throwing at us because we invented the Internet and they had to STFU. And all the slag the Xers are throwing at you is the shit the 'boomers threw at us because they're entitled pricks. They're still not retiring, they're still not downsizing, and by the way they're sending you little shits checks every month so that you can afford to live in the neighborhoods we had to scrape up a downpayment for back in '02.

Y'all got the shaft, no doubt, but you weren't the only ones. There are now three generations that have grown up in the ruin of the Golden Age of Capitalism and I, for one, am not interested in fighting over the scraps (even though financially speaking I'll win).

That ennui you feel isn't a Millennial thing, it's an "I'm closer to 30 than to 10" thing. This movie is now older than Ethan Hawke and Winona Ryder were in this movie.

Isherwood  ·  653 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I wasn't trying to slag Xers, I very much remember all the shit that used to be talked about them when I was growing up and, even as a child thinking "that's a bit rough".

I was specifically thinking about my work place. It's run by boomers and xers and they're always reading out articles and surveys responses that say who millennials are and how to get them to come to our workplace.

Once a quarter we'll get a millennial report - where a boomer stands in front of a crowd of millennials and tells us what we want in the workplace. The speech comes with a fair amount of "this is what the data says you want and it's more than we got - so be grateful." None of it really resonates with me or with the other people my age, but there's data and old people are wielding it, so Who Am I to say it's not what I actually want?

I get why they do it - they don't want the workforce to age out and we're a confusing group. I'm not admonishing the efforts (half the reason I go along with it is because of the effort - at least they care, right?)

I'm more reflecting on my (and many of my cohort's) tendency to accept the outsider's assessment instead of being confident in my own. It feels like a common crisis for people my age. And I've seen the most passionate among us flare up in harsh rebellion to the assessments. The result is usually some form of radicalism, those who go first seem to go big, but it's still a reaction to the same assessments.

That's not what has me curious. My mom and dad we're Joe and Sue. They always made a point to tell me, against millennial tradition but in accordance with Lutheran, that I am most likely in most ways average. That's simply how it has to be for the math to work. So when I start to feel these discomforts and trepidation, they don't make me feel alienated - they make me wonder how the cohort is going to deal with them.

I wonder how the millennial masses will come to terms with who they are. What personalities will shake out when they realize what shitty yields come from investing in looking cool. What they'll really value when then number and expense of appliances means you really can't have them all. How they'll act when they work for 8 hours, play with their kids for 5, and have 1 glorious 60 minute period left for them to truly be themselves.

It's already happening to the masses in some ways. The industries we're killing, the complaints we're making, the culture we're refusing - they're all the result of a critical mass of completely average people simultaneously thinking to themselves, "no, I don't think that's the way I'll do it."

It's our right, just like it was your right, just like it was our parents' right. I think how we exercise that right as we become functioning adults is going to be fascinating.

steve  ·  652 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    because we invented the Internet and they had to STFU

In fairness... I think we improved the internet... boomers framed it... we made it usable and brought it to the masses.

OftenBen  ·  653 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Was not expecting to have two existential crises in one week, thanks jerk :/

Isherwood  ·  771 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Pubski: June 7, 2017

We're all moved into the house and I finally managed to fire up the oven and make my first loaf of bread. The internal thermometer was spot on and had no trouble getting up the 475 - though the kitchen is stuffy without a fan. But I got to use up my North Carolina grown and ground flour and it's delicious.

I have two courses up and running for the company I work at - a workshop on public speaking and a book club on having difficult conversations - both of which seem to get a lukewarm response. I want to develop a third course on decision making but for some reason I've been attacked by a bout of lethargy and nihilism - neither of which are great motivators. So I'm diving into the real question - do I change my occupation to seek more satisfaction, or dive in head first for higher compensation?

snoodog  ·  771 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Let's compare bread photos. I bake every week. Interestingly enough I'm not at all sensitive to temp. I just bake at 500

keifermiller  ·  771 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Weekly bread thread, y'all?

Isherwood  ·  771 days ago  ·  link  ·  

and snoodog I'm in for breadski. for some reason my last couple of bakes have all gone flat. I think with the rising temps, I'm trying to use my winter proof time and it's just consistently over proofing. A little competition might get me to pay more attention to my final rise.

snoodog  ·  771 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Ive dropped my final rise time down to 1-2 hours and that's fixed a lot of my problems. I dont think a long (4 hr) rise is necessary and it causes all sorts of problems for me.

user-inactivated  ·  771 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think I could talk Dala into doing it. Baking bread is fun.

Dala  ·  771 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I could be down for some baking.

Isherwood  ·  770 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I usually bake on saturdays, but I did four loves last week. I'll try to get some baked this weekend.

Isherwood  ·  1427 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Did you ever say "I could do that" when looking at some modern art?

It might be a little cold, but when I hear the "I could do that" argument I don't disagree, I just ask if they think they could get it in a museum after they made it. That's the impressive part to me, there's enough of a story around the work to merit a stay in a museum. But, I'm not an art guy.

user-inactivated  ·  1427 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I really agree with how the woman in the video described the creative and decision making process for art which is not about form, but instead requires a deeper understanding of circumstances and context in order to make sense. I'm not a huge modern art guy because I believe that if art fails to convey the artist's intention then it has failed in the goal of art, and I don't believe most modern art does that for the reasons in the video.

Two clocks next to each other makes a lot of sense as a metaphor for love, but I don't think most people would understand that they will fall out of synch, or die. If they were in synch when viewed then they are in synch 'forever' to the viewer. If they had changed then the viewer doesn't know they were in synch. The context is missing. If they were dead when viewed then you don't think of them as alive, and worse if they weren't in synch when they died (though that message is beautiful). That context is completely necessary and not possible for most, but when viewed within that context through someone explaining it to you it makes a lot more sense and becomes something greater. Modern art does not come with an interpreter, but needs one, or someone extremely dedicated to the puzzle, to shine brightest.

user-inactivated  ·  1427 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Another aspect is: the medium itself is not so easy. Permanent vs temporary, to use a gloss finish or not, what type of brush to use, what type of paint, acrylic resin?, gold leaf?, what works with what, what causes art to crack and yellow, how do you frame canvas, how long does it take to dry, how do you put layer on top of layer without it getting muddy, and so forth.

Looking at one of those stupidly simplistic paintings hanging in a modern art museum, part of me is saddened by the current state of modern art (so much focus on controversy, little focus on actual skill), but looking at the painting, sculpture, mixed media piece, what have you, I recognize the craftsmanship and technical skill.

kleinbl00  ·  1427 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Your analysis is vastly closer to the truth than the video's.

That pile of candy? Yeah. Sold for $750k, if I recall correctly. About 10 years after Torres died. So who's the artist? 'cuz Torres didn't make the candy, wrap the candy or pile the candy, and he sure didn't sell the candy. So what aspect of that is the part that ended up in a gallery?

But that doesn't fit in a jump-cutty little video.

Isherwood  ·  1427 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yeah, when she was talking about the "deskillinization" of art all I could think about is the fact that these people don't have less skills, they have different skill. Technical skill might not be huge, but social skill seems to be much bigger. It's an interesting little dynamic.

elizabeth  ·  1427 days ago  ·  link  ·  

From the video:

    It's not that these things don't take skill, it's just that they take different kinds of skill

So it looks like you guys agree :)

I liked this video because it gave many different reasons to dismiss comments like " I could have done that". Some reasons I agree with, other not really but it gives a bunch to think about I find.

kleinbl00  ·  1427 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yeah, I actually don't agree at all. Torres's shit was deliberately skill-free. Mondrian's skill was entirely separate from what the video highlights - "look! He painted straight lines!" The video is pretty much a pat, self-assured straw-man argument wrapped up in cheerful "look, youtubers!" livery.

The debate, if the other side is allowed to speak, goes like this:

"I could have made that."

"But you didn't!"

"But I COULD have."

"Are you sure? Straight lines are hard! Let's go shopping!"

"Almost positive he used masks like everybody else. Wonder if there's any evidence of that on the Internet."

"Artists use a different kind of skill! It's still skill!"

"Show me the skill in putting two clocks on a wall."

"Okay, why don't you put two clocks on a wall! Maybe you'll learn something about art!"

"Yeah, I'll learn that a pair of walmart clocks won't get me into the MoMa."

"You see? It's about context! Art is context!"

"Torres did context like a madlib. Every work he did is about dying or aids. They're all called "untitled" (non sequitor)". I could point to two throw pillows on my couch and say it's about dying of AIDS and people would think I was crazy. Torres would do the same thing and the Saatchi brothers would buy it for $400k. The context is 'fuck you, I'm rich.'"

"There, see? You learned something about art!"

continues hating modern art because the apologizer doesn't understand it either

Isherwood  ·  1426 days ago  ·  link  ·  

This is why I liked Exit Through the Gift Shop.

user-inactivated  ·  1403 days ago  ·  link  ·  
This comment has been deleted.
artis  ·  1402 days ago  ·  link  ·  

That's simple: popularity. It is impressive for sure but it's at least as much of a measure of charisma as creativity. I suppose it comes down to whether the scene is happy about the meta story of themselves where salesmen are the finest artists.

The moderation tools on Hubski are psychologically weird. For the longest time, we've relied on third parties like moderators and curators to give us guidance on what's good and what's bad.

The benefit from this system, besides cleaner content feeds, is a peace of mind that comes from less control. When something "bad" gets through, you're able to blame the third party. If something "good" doesn't get through, you're able to blame the third party.

At Hubski you're that moderator and what's so weird about this, for me and few others I've seen, is that the scary part of being your own moderator isn't accidentally letting the bad through, but accidentally filtering the good out.

There's a dozen little psychological oddities like that one attached to this, and frankly any, new system. Some of those oddities may affect, some some may not, and because of that I don't believe there's any one answer, one set of etiquette guidelines, that should be laid out for everyone.

You're allowed to do whatever you want with your moderation powers but remember this is a community that aims towards person to person connection. That's your primary tool here. If you don't agree with them or they don't agree with you, you can try to talk as two flesh and blood human beings, and if that doesn't work (or you don't feel like it) you can use the other tools at your disposal.

aidrocsid  ·  1457 days ago  ·  link  ·  

That's how I feel about it. I just blocked this person who muted me because I don't want posts that I can't reply to showing up in my feed. I did unblock them from PMing me, though, just in case they decide later that it was a mistake and want to rectify the situation.

Other than that I haven't even hushed anyone yet!