I completely agree with you, actually. The more time gamers spend trying to validate the medium, the more difficult it will be to get others to do so. Books and Film escaped any stigma long ago, and shows like Breaking Bad are doing the same for Television. Games shouldn't have to validate themselves as an art-form, I don't think. I also like your edit. I think that's a good way of explaining it, and that helps my perception of the term a bit. Question: You say I always found the argument for games as art to lead in circles. It's a harder medium to define as an artform because it has so much going on within it, and one game can vary from another drastically - as opposed to films, which all have a basic structure, for the most part. I suppose my favorite example for what I think would be a game as art would be Journey - funny enough, those guys made Flower.gamers, critics and professionals alike push what are poor examples of video games as a medium
. What do you consider to be good examples? Stuff like what you mentioned in your first comment?